Do you think Zionists over-use the term "Anti-Semitism"?

Question

I have been even accused of being Anti-Semite for dividing 20 Billion over 4.9 Million and getting 4081.63 as a result. I'm serious... you can see it here:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=ArDLsxf4FW6FImohi8t1HZfty6IX?qid=20070804125608AAU6aaz

I get the feeling that they just throw the accusation without even thinking about its meaning, or do they? Is it being confused with other terms like Anti-Judaism (religion), Anti-Israelis (Nation) or Anti-zionist (Political movement) while Semite is an ethnic race!

Could this backfire? Do you think the term is loosing its significance like the story of that guy who used to cry "Wolf"?

Is it just emotional blackmail, or do Zionists take these accusations seriously? Or is it some kind of collective Paranoia?

Question also posted on "General - Politics & Government"

Edit to MikeInRI: I said clearly I'm Anti-Zionist (the political movement with all what it stands for) why on earth would that make me automatically Anti-Someone who claims he is the decendant of Jacob son of Abraham of the "Bronze Age" (Semite) or Anti-someone who wants to follow the religion of Moses (Jewish)? I personally couldn't care less! Thank you for the definitions you linked but they are still missing the definition of Anti-Zionist. Here is a link for your perusal... maybe it will help clear up the confusion... you'll note that those concepts are not the same:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist

Edit to moneymaker: By the way, the term "Zionist" is not an insult!!! And I'm not using it as such. It is simply the political movement that established the state of Israel. Of all people you should know that.
Any way I refer you to the link in my edti to MikeInIR above.
Cheers

Edit to moneymaker: Why would I use the term Jew instead of Zionist, they are not the same thing. Not all Jews are Zionists (some Jews do oppose Zionism as well) and not all Zionists are Jews (many non-Jews specially in the US do sympathize with Zionist principles and this makes them Zionists). This is what I have been trying to say all along. Zionism is not a synonymous to Jewish and since I have nothing against Jews, religiously speaking, I can not substitute one term for the other.

Edit to EgyptY: Yes Arabs as an ethnicity are semites. But I have no problems accepting the Zionists definition as a synonymous to Anti-Jewish only. Since I know I am not Anti-semite in the broader or the narrower meaning... And I personally think that in todays world very few are.

Edit to diana and rossonero: Well I learned something new from this question, Why do you people get offended by being described as Zionists? If you believe that there's nothing wrong with Zionism Shouldn't you be proud of being called so?
I wouldn't imagine a Republican in the US for example being offended for being identified as one.
And by the way I say Zionist becasue I mean Zionist not Jew... they are different things. I don't say Zionist because I hate Jews, the contrary is true. I say Zionist because I have nothing against Jews... I said Clearly I'm anti-Zionists regardless of their religion... and this is my democratic right.
Just have a look at my second edit to moneymaker... I just hate repeating myself.

Edit to londonminx: My question was not about Jews but about Zionists, I guess I have reasonably established the difference. I'm certain that there are a lot of decent Jews who do not use such blackmailing techniques.
As I said, I am Anti-Zionist, and within this context I guess you are right when you say that I do consider the establishment of the state of Israel was a highly unusual precedent in world politics amounting to a mistake. But opinions are one thing and being realistic and accepting to deal with established facts is another.
Israel now is a fact and we all have to deal with it accordingly. And by the way it has nothing to do with Jews. If those who established Israel were Hindus we Arabs would have had the same position.

Edit to londonminx (Continued): About having never seen someone who hated Zionist and liked Jews... I guess at this point it is enough to say I don't hate Jews to deny the accusation of Antisemitism (but I don't have to like them either) - can they just be neutral to me like every body else. Can I deal with jews one at a time to see if I like him/ her or not according to their actions as human beings - or is it a Zero sum game I either have to love them all or hate them all?

Edit to ST: I have asked a few topical questions about Israel and Zionism I see I have been rather objective in asking them. Why do you see them as insults? I haven't used bad words like most of our Zionist Friends have in their replies (Very bad manners indeed) ;-). Or do you consider critisizm an Insult? If I'm wrong just direct me to where I have insulted anyone and I'll gladly appologize... But just don't use those intimidating tactics... I guess they are loosing their effect just like calling me Anti-Semite.

Edit to eyal b: Thank you for the directions to your Falafel stand, But I have to remind you Falafel is a typical Egyptian food not Israeli, or have they hijacked this too ;-) Cheers

Edit to MikeInIR: Thank you for prooving my point by saying that 5% of Jews aren't Zionists. I like and respect those 5% becasue they had the courage to do the right thing. And I have certainly nothing against them because of their religious beliefs, so If I like those Jews will that make me Anti-Semite?
If I don't like A Zionist Christian American who is obviously not Jewish and not Semite... Will that still make me Anti-Semite?
You just contradict yourself. I know exactly what I am talking about... and if you just calm down and discuss the issues with a little logic, without being so tense, without throwing accusations and threats all over the place, I'm sure you would too. Cheers

Edit to MikeInIR: Although I hate going into useless arguments. Your revised numbers are those of the American Official Aid to Israel channeled directly from the American budget through the aproval of congress, it doesn't include private donations collected by Jewish NGOs in the US which amount to 10 Billion a year and officail loans taking the number back to 20 Billion.
By the way... have you ever heard of the term Christian Zionist... here have a look:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionist

Answer 1

Oh yes, Zionists and Christian-Zionists(much of the modern evangelical movement in America that are waiting for the "Rapture"), throw out the term "Anti-Semitic" when someone has the courage to criticize Israel's policies, actions and Israeli and American-Jewish Lobbies who will run primary candidates against a congressman or senator that is not sufficiently pro-Israel. And to express concern for Palestinians in the Israeli(illegally)occupied Territories is by default not being "pro-Israel".

That term "pro-Israel" is bizarre in itself. As an American, I've never heard a term such as "pro-Poland" or "pro-Finland"....you know?

And being labeled as "anti-semitic" is a very effective slur to smear the character and reputation of a person. Former President Jimmy Carter was(and is) visciously attacked and called an "anti-semite" when he wrote and had published his book: 'Palestine: Peace not Apartheid'.

No matter what tv interview or university lecture Carter was invited to, a counter speaker was there -- usually that terrible O.J. Simpson defense attorney -Professor Alan Dershowitz. Dershowitz also was behind the denying of Tenure to Professor Norman Finklestein, who has written excellent exposes on the cynical "holocaust industry" and the racism of Israel. He also exposed Dershowitz as a plagiarist. As a result, Finklestein has been tarred as a "self-hating Jew" and now has been denied a living!

And when people try to point out that semites include Arabs, a long explanation on what "anti-semitism" means comes forth....it's only applicable to Jewish 'victims' of it and so on.

I've been called an "anti-semite" and a "jew-hater"....I even had a convert to Judaism(converts to any religion tend to be the most enthusiastically brainwashed idiots) write a bizarre and long post to me in a forum that my parents were anti-semites because many New England 'yankees'(white anglo-saxon protestants with lineage to the Mayflower) "hate" Jews and therefore the reason my father married a Palestinian immigre was because he was a Jew-Hater. This person does not know my parents and does not know me, but it gives you an idea of how some people who identify as Zionists(not just as an observant Jew) think.

The most common claim hurled at people who criticize Zionism, is that we cannot be anti-Zionist without being anti-Jewish....that the two are the same. I've always thought the two are quite different. And, there are some Orthodox Jews who do not believe in the state of Israel and are anti-Zionists. Of course they are labeled a 'cult' or abberation by Zionists.

What I find amusing is that with the application of new technology, geneticists are finding that of all the Arabs, those who are Palestinian have identical to nearly identical alleles to Sephardi Jews. Now how do the learned Rabbis in Israel, some of whom are still debating if non-Jews are human beings(Haaretz news - last year) deal with the scientific method and its results?--Zionists ignoring such evidence seems to be the modus operandi for the time being....

Answer 2

Yes, yes they do. Ironically, all arabs are semites. They Palestinians are more semite than the East European Jews. As are the Sephardics and black african Jews who get mistreated in Israel by the white majority. A lot of double speak about what it means to be a Jew. When you look at it, Israel is pretty anti semitic. OH, and Israel and the ADL aren't above harassing, or in even physically torturing Jews who speak out against this.

http://youtu.be/DIT9sLz29iQ?list=PLGILnqEdrDNuM5Jowuc52BX0WLUe0HAKP

Answer 3

Well, this is certainly a topical question! This issue seems to appear again and again.

I think there is a difference between a person who is being racist (or anti semitic) and ignorant (genuinely doesn't know anything about Israel or zionism).

I'm not Jewish myself; I grew up in a Jewish area of London and as a result many of my closest friends are Jewish. I can only speak from my experience of spending time with them and having many, many, MANY conversations about this topic.

The only time I have ever seen any of my Jewish friends accuse someone of racism, is when the remark was so blatanly offensive that any decent person, of any faith, would find it spiteful.

I've never personally known a Jewish person accuse another of 'anti semitism'. In my experience the opposite happens; they are highly reluctant to say it because, despite having suffered so much over time, Jewish people don't see themselves as victims, and certainly don't want others to see them this way!

And isn't that one of the reasons why Israel is so vital to Jewish people? Because it restored a feeling of pride and autonomy in a people who had been persecuted and almost extinguished?

Now for the ever thorny issue of anti - zionism.

If you say you are 'anti zionist' then what you are saying is that you are opposed to the right of Israel to exist. In other words; there should be no Jewish homeland, in the area of the world where there have been Jews for almost 4000 years.

Given that all other faiths and religions have their own lands, why shouldn't the Jews have one? There are 22 Muslim nations. Why can't there be one Jewish nation? Israel is TINY!

Now you will say, I'm sure, that you are 'anti zionist' because you support the Palestinians.

I support them too - I think they have suffered dreadfully and of course they need a state.

But they, in turn, and the whole Arab world, must reject terrorism - and must acknowledge the right of Israel to exist.

You are clearly articulate and intelligent and I think therefore you must know your history. Thus you will know that the original Palestinians WERE the Jews.

Can a person be anti zionist, and not be anti semitic?

I guess they can - I personally have never come across someone who hated Israel and liked Jews, though. Might be coincidence....

EDIT - JEHAN: What are you going on about - I've checked the Ha'aretz index etc and there is nothing like the topic you describe - clearly just more rubbish you can't substantiate. Pathetic.

Answer 4

I'm not Jewish. I guess all I can add to this discussion is that in the many debates I've heard about the Middle East, every single time a person has been anti-zionist, I have then heard them go on to make very definite anti-jewish comments also.

It is a well known fact, and I have witnessed it myself, that many, many racist people who are anti Jewish, have great success in using the 'I have no problem with Jews, I'm just against Israel' stance

It is also true that it is not at all racist to criticise Israel. Every Jewish person I know agrees with this.

But to hold Israel to a different, usually higher moral standard than her Arab neighbours, and to condemn her while condoning the terrible things the Muslim states do - that IS discriminating and that is anti Jewish.

Israel should be treated like every other country on earth; and be held to the same standards. That is all Jews and Israelis want.

TO JEHAN; you should be really ashamed to lie blatantly abouto these things. I too have looked into what you said and there is no record - at least none that I can find - of Haaretz having such a discussion.

But, during the seven years I spent living and working in Muslim countries, I can tell you that I heard PLENTY of Muslims expressing the opinion that non Muslims were less than human and thus worthy of no respect.

Answer 5

well you tell me...

Muslim anti-Zionism generally opposes the state of Israel as an intrusion into what many Muslims consider to be Dar al-Islam, a domain rightfully, and permanently, ruled only by Muslims. Once Dar al-Islam is established in a country, non-Muslims are permitted only dhimmi status as protected from violence, but inferior and subject to Islamic law. Thus any sovereign, non-Muslim government in what is now Israel would be anathema.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Zionism#Muslim_anti-Zionism

To say that any one peace of territory is forbidden to be governed by anyone that is not Muslim and that it is forever Arab land. Would, at least in my mind be considered raciest.

Lets be honest with ourselves, Arab hate for Israel has nothing to do with its treatment of the Palestinians. If the Israelis were Muslims instead of Jews It would not have been a serious problem.

After all events like the North Yemen Civil War show that Arabs are perfectly capable of killing each other and making up afterwords.

So if this is all about the fact that Israel is Jewish and not Muslim you wander why we think anti-semitism is a factor.

Answer 6

Anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism. But singling out Israel for vilification and international sanction - out of proportion to any other party in the Middle East - is anti-Semitic.

Anti-Zionism is criticism of Israel, as Israel is the Zionist state. The ultimate dream of any Jewish Diaspora Zionist is to move to Israel, meanwhile they will support Israel from the Diaspora. Most citizens of Israel are Zionists living the Zionist dream.

Answer 7

The question is not that Jews call anti-Semites "anti-Semites." The problem is that so many non-Jews express anti-Jewish feelings. And hold such feelings even if they don't express them.

2000 years of Christianity have endowed Western society with a subconscious prejudice against Jews.

If you are concerned about this thing, you may wish to examine your own down-deep beliefs.


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Answer 8

And this is connected to travel to Israel in which way?
So if you didn't get it this a forum for questions about traveling to Israel and not raising political questions (If you want I can direct you to very good Fallafel stand in Tel-Aviv).
Have a nice day. ;-)
EDIT:
Did I said that Fallafel is Israeli food? Why everything have to political with you? I said I know a very good Fallafel stand in Tel-Aviv, you are welcome to go there, when you will come to Israel please call me and I'll give you directions how to go there (By the way the Lebanese say Fallafel is their food, are you going to start a war with them too?)

Answer 9

maybe they do, but do you think that antisemitic scum overuse the term "Zionists"?


http://islam-the-monster-unchained.blogspot.com/



Edit: so, why not just call us Jews?


Edit2: yes you do have EVERYTHING against the Jews. Otherwise you wouldn't have anything against them having a homeland. And don't tell me that you only have problem with "Jews taking Palestinian land" that is bullsh*t! Jews got attacked, and took your land, and now it is theirs. You have a problem with Jews living in the Middle East and not being in the status of dhimma (or whatever the second class citizens are called).
You people have learned very well that unlike you, we have conscience which you can poke at for everything that we deserve or not (mostly not.)
Doesn’t bother you a bit how you have treated your own Jews. Doesn't bother you a bit the kind of methods your fellow muslims are using to achieve their goals. You support these cannibals in everything they do because they act against us, the Jews.
And all we want to do is live and prosper.

Anitisemitism = Antizionism. Period.


Edit 3: Just the fact that you treat your own fellow-Arabs like sh*t !for decades! to simply achieve some kind of political goal against Israel makes me puke.


Jenah: "haaretz, last year" is bullsh*t, and you know it. Next time please do provide link. You are pathetic.

Answer 10

of course active Zionist use Anti-Judaism and Anti-Semites at large to fool the fools and sometimes they create the situations of Anti any thing. To say Palestine has the right to exist too is Anti-Semitism to most Zionists.