OFA question for breeders?

Question

Do you believe that a dog that has OFA Excellent rated hips will have more restricted movement than a dog rated OFA Fair?
In some smaller breeds like mine the hips are not as crucial to the well being of the dog. A Corgi can have mild hip dysplasia and show no symptoms. Would you breed a Corgi with a OFA Borderline rating? I am contemplating this now. If I do breed her I would check all her puppies hips to see what she throws.

You may answer to all or any of the questions.

I talked to a well respected Corgi breeder yesterday that said she thought that hips did affect the movement on a Corgi. She breeds mostly OFA fair and good rated dogs. Many would disagree with her in this, so I was wondering what you all thought about it.

I will have to look into the penn hip thing. I have heared about it, but don't know much. What do you think about it?

Answer 1

I raise Cardigan Welsh Corgis and as you stated Hips are usually not a factor with Corgis... even less in Cardigans than Pembrokes. P.R.A (Progressive Retnial Atrophy) is the worst culprit in this breed. I would worry about that more than hips. Though I would never breed a dog with Fair rated hips. Its just a possible problem down the road. The more you breed dogs with fair rated hips the likely chance the pups can be bad... Both my pair have excellent rating... my male has had excellent ratings down the line. His grandfather is CH. Codewig Carbon Blue and he has had champions all through his line. The female I have was rated good, but her father was good her mother was fair.I even waited till she was 3 years for her first breeding to be sure they didnt deteriorate.
BorderBethie- not trying to make you angry or anyhting but in my years of raising Cardigans and knowing Pembroke breeders for MANY years I have yet to see a Corgi need a C-section. Bred properly and match correctly they very rarely have whelping issues. HD in Corgi's is not usually a problem at all... I have not seen many HD corgis through out my career, not saying there arent some... but a bordline HD in a corgi is still a good solid corgi, its just bad practice to risk the deterioration of a breeding program by breeding fairs and borderlines together. I also agree with someones earlier statement about OFA certification you really need to find a vet that is dedicated to the welfare of the BREED rather than the dog as a whole.... Each breed of dog has certian requirements and to rate them all as a whole is detrimental to certifying a dog properly. Penhip is a very good idea if you want to breed quality show animals and healthy, strucuraly sound Corgis.

Answer 2

There are a few issues here that I'm not certain whether you are aware of, or not. For the most part all of my comments are related to what I primarily know through Rottweilers, and our Aussie.

First of all, OFA ratings are NOT a black and white rating. The x-rays are viewed by three vets. After they have viewed the x-ray, they come up with a rating. I know of cases where a dog was given a rating, re-submitted and then given a higher rating. You're not going to ever see it the other way since once you've gotten a satisfactory rating there is no reason for you to go back.

OFA ratings can vary over the years. This is a little known fact. Rottweiler hips were getting better because of hip breeding programs. All of a sudden it appeared that dogs that would have previously passed were failing. When the OFA was asked about this, they told us that their ratings do change for breeds. Be aware that OFA certification is breed specific. An OFA good Rottweiler might be considered unacceptable if it was a Greyhound.

When considering breeding programs you need to take into consideration ratings for the siblings, and ratings for any offspring of the siblings. That's why long time breeders will sometimes do what others might consider odd, such as breed two OFA fairs. It isn't just the rating for the dogs being bred.

One of the primary reasons for OFA certification is the fact that you simply look at the dog, you can never be certain whether the dog is dysplastic, or not. So having a dog that is mildly dysplastic that doesn't show symptoms isn't really saying anything.

I know my response is going to be hard for you to take, but if try justifying this to yourself, you may as well stop doing OFA certifications at all. You either abide by it, or you don't.

Seeing what she throws is a disservice on a couple of levels. One. You won't know for certain for another two years. Secondly, even if you find out their okay, they could be carriers.

Bottom line. Assume you kept one and at one year old the dog had to be put down because it was dysplastic and in a LOT of pain. How would you feel? Now if your proposed litter was all this way, what would you tell all of the puppy buyers?

It's not an easy decision. Our first owner bred Rottweiler, OFA Excellent, Champion, eyes clear, TD, Amer./Can. CDX turned out to have a genetic heart issue just after we bred him. We were contemplating whether we were going to put down an entire litter. Fortunately, the female didn't take. At the same time, despite all of the money, time and effort, we instantly pulled this dog from being used as a stud dog.

Answer 3

Hips that are rated Excellent would mean the ball of the femur fits into the hip socket with out any or minimal joint space. An Exc rated hip will give the dog better movement of the leg not restrict it. A dog with lesser rated hips will have more joint space and/or ball or socket that has an incorrect shape or deterioration, a dog with a good usually never shows any problem with movement, a dog with fair rating may show signs of movement problems as they age and a dog with poor will have more of a possibility of symptoms, when the hips are borderline the diagnosis is closer to dysplastic and any rating lower than borderline is considered dysplastic. The movement in a dog with a lesser rating may be "restricted" or track improperly do to the dog compensating for the ball "popping" in the socket and/or due to the pain this causes.

Corgis are not actually "small" dogs...they are medium size dogs with short legs. The selective breeding has shortened the legs and with doing so it has also changed the structure of the hip/pelvis. This is also the reason many corgis are not natural whelpers and need C-sections. The puppy size is still that of a medium size dog but the pelvis is smaller and can't allow the pups to pass through (personal experience). Also because of the short legs many corgis need to be artificially inseminated.

I would NOT breed a corgi with borderline hips, its an inconclusive rating that the vet panel can not give a fair rating. A bordeline rating should be re-exrayed in 6 mos and see if the joint space is more advanced, if there is signs of arthritis or bone deterioration.

If she is borderline and is re-exrayed to a fair rating, and she is tested for Cerf (PRA etc), OFA-heart, shown to Ch, has a bloodline of good to excell hip on all bred ancestors, is bred to an OFA-Exc stud thats lineage is OFA Good to Exc, the stud has had all health screening and is a champ...and there is are no puppies from either sire or dams side with a lower than borderline rating then you may want to reconsider BUT that is a gamble and you won't know that for up to 2 yrs (hips can be prelim. at 18 mos but 24 mos or older is the age OFA requires-do you want to be responsible for puppies that are diagnosed with hip problems or exrayed at 24 mos and are dysplastic?) If she has 4-6 puppies are you willing to pay for each to be xrayed? that will run $125-$300 a dog (or more in some areas and that doesn't include the OFA fees for some vets). Remember, some states have lemon laws for dogs and you may be responsible for vet bills later on any puppy/dog that has a health problem.

Answer 4

- Restricted movement? Do you mean to say that an OFA fair dog will have a flying gait but an OFA excellent dog wont? If that's what you're asking, no, the health of a dog's hips won't determine the quality of their gait. That is based upon the dog's conformation itself and your handling techniques. Hip dysplasia will cause much pain, though, so a dysplastic dog would probably have more restricted movement than a normal dog so as to avoid the pain.
- This is why I don't like OFA. OFA assesses one radiograph that looks at a dog's hip at its tightest possible configuration. Therefore, OFA excellent and good and even fair dogs can (and often do) throw dogs with hip dysplasia. If you're serious about preventing and stopping CHD in your dog's pedigree, PennHip your dog.

If your dog does not show symptoms of HD and has OFA fair hips, PennHip (pennhip.org) your dog anyways. It's best to be absolutely sure than to potentially subject an entire litter of puppies to this debilitating disease.

Answer 5

Breed it to what is the question? Breed to another borderline - I wouldn't. Breeding fair to fair is also risking. fair to good or good to good is almot always safe.

HD is only 30% genetic and the rest is handling, diet, activity. How did you handle your OFA borderline pup? Was your dog anesthetised for x-rays? That can mess up the results. It is probably wiser to search out a vet who is truly and expert at taking hip x-rays and redo the OFA. You might be pleasantly surprised.

How much risk are you willing to take in replacement pups and damaged reputation?

Answer 6

You raise a good point in that health clearances might mean different things in different breeds. I always believed that certain breeds don't do certain specific health clearances because it's not very important in their breed.
Here's a question for you ... Don't Corgis need good hips to efficiently herd? I would think that certain health clearances might be a good indicator of a dog's ability to perform the job he was bred to do. What would another Corgi breeder say?

Answer 7

well being sorting out would not unavoidably make somebody a "solid" breeder yet loss of well being sorting out makes them, a minimum of, an irresponsible one. If the breeder isn't showing or working their canines ~ WHY are they breeding?? If the purpose is in basic terms to produce pets they seem to be a outdoor breeder and as such the cost of the doggies is what a rescue would value $2 hundred-$3 hundred (which then delivers one greater $1500 to handle the aptitude well being subject concerns that would get up because of the fact the father and mom have been unscreened). As a breeder, i'm no longer able to allow you already know the style of human beings who i've got interviewed/screened and who've then desperate to purchase from the interior reach domestic dog farm because of the fact they have been "greater value-effective" and "had a domestic dog attainable now". it is so very unhappy whilst they come back to me later because of the fact they are heartbroken because of the fact they have had to euthanize their canines by way of severe hip dysplasia or temperament subject concerns.. or in 2 circumstances the domestic dog fell over ineffective whilst out taking part in by way of a heart illness - which the breeders are KNOWINGLY producing... and because I hardly have doggies its in comparison to I even have one waiting to sell to them to replace their "much cheap" canines. There are places to shop funds - loss of high quality whilst procuring a domestic dog is a dumb place to do it.

Answer 8

I wouldn't. With each generation those hips are likely to get worse. And if bred with a poor rating male the chance of that is even higher.