Silenced Lamb,
When I first became a christian more than 30 years ago, I had no view of it. Never even heard of it.
When it became apparent to me that there was quite a division in the Christian Community over it, I decided to study it for myself, with no pre-conceived ideas one way or the other.
I'm glad it happened that way. So at least I knew that my conclusions were not biased.
First I completely read the Bible, noting, and taking notes on every verse that directly or indirectly related to the subject.
Only after this did I start reading various books on the subject. Giving equal time to all views.
In fact I can honestly say that I completly devoted almost three solid years to the subject.
Obviously I could not begin to list each and every one of the reasons that lead to the view I hold today. If I even tried I would end up writing a book on the subject. (I even thought of that. But there are already numerous books on the subject. Pre, Mid, or Post).
I came to the conclusion that the Pre-tribulational view is the correct view. In fact I find the evidence so overwhelming I can only conclude that most people are so biased on the subject that they are simply not interested in even giving any other view but their own an honest hearing.
As far as Hank Hanigraff is concerned, I'm sorry. But the man has become completely unbalanced on the subject. At least Walter Martin (his predesessor) was as honest as he could be. I do not believe the same can be said for Mr. Hanigraff. I have listened to him on the radio during his "Bible Answer Man" show and cringed while he completely butchered Scripture. Plus completely set up "strawman" arguements against Pre-tribulationalism and mis-represented the Position, and the Arguments supporting it.
As far as the "Left Behind" series is concerned. Most of the theology is solid and has strong biblical support. The details of course are pure "fiction filler".
With that being said, that does not mean there was not some serious errors in the films. And of course there were cliches and much bad acting. But the PREMISE behind the films is absolutely bibilically accurate.
So in conclusion Silenced Lamb; While I support your right to hold a different view, (as other real christians may) I simply believe that you are in fact, in error.
I willing yield to your superior knowledge when it comes to your "usual" subject (the Jehovahs Witnesses & the Watchtower Org). But not on this particular subject.
I have simply studied it too long, too intensely, and too completely willing to come down on whichever side scripture was pointing to.
But of course we are always united in our love for the Lord.
Your Brother in Christ,
...theBerean
2007-08-05 16:30:10
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answer #1
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answered by theBerean 5
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Rapture: If the chosen ones were gone what difference would it make how long it took?
(Matthew 24:21-22) 21Â for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. 22Â In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short.
(2 Peter 3:5-7) 5Â For, according to their wish, this fact escapes their notice, that there were heavens from of old and an earth standing compactly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; 6Â and by those [means] the world of that time suffered destruction when it was deluged with water. 7Â But by the same word the heavens and the earth that are now are stored up for fire and are being reserved to the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly men.
In the same way as the flood? the globe was still here only the wicked were gone.
(2 Peter 3:13) 13Â But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.
A cleansed earth.
2007-08-05 16:44:42
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answer #2
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answered by Vanessa 6
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The rapture commonly called by Evangelical Protestants as Jesus rapturing the church before the tribulation is actually only 150 years old. The common tradition from other churches...Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, some protestants and yes Mormons is that the Antichrist will here and everyone else alive will still be around. The rapture comes when Jesus truly makes his second coming. Case closed.
The blessed hope was thought up by an Evangelical in the 19th century as he interpreted the bible by mixing and matching certain scriptures that really don't fit together.
2007-08-05 15:47:45
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answer #3
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answered by Brother G 6
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It's funny you should ask this question. I have been pondering this for a long time. I used to believe in the pre-tribulation rapture, but now I am not so sure. The more I study, the more I am skeptical of it. Could it be that we will be raptured AFTER the Great Tribulation? I think it is a distinct possibility. We need to be PREPARED for what is to come! The Bible warns us so much of that. I am currently reading "The Sign" by Robert Van Kampen. He holds the view of the Pre Wrath Rapture. Being as the Great Tribulation is not God's wrath, but Satan's. The book is very, very thorough, and is scripture based. So far, I am not seeing any contradictions. I am 2/3 way through the book. It is very thick. Anyway, what do you think? I think you should read this book. I, for one, do not believe in substituting any other book for the Holy Word of God, so I am skeptical of anything else written besides the Bible. But, if the book contains Scriptural back up of everything it says, then, I can tend to believe it.
This is something I've struggled with for quite some time, and have read many books, and have seen the "Left Behind" movies. I even own them. But, that does mean I necessarily believe all of it. I am curious to know what others think, too.
2007-08-05 11:36:37
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answer #4
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answered by byHisgrace 7
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Regarding Christadelphians and their beliefs, briefly, this pacifist movement was founded in the 1800s by John Thomas, a physician and the son of a Congregationalist minister. The sect is not Christian, nor do they believe in a Trinitarian Godhead. Rather they believe that God is unitarian, the Father alone is God; the Holy Spirit is the force of God; and Jesus is a sort of created god who was once a mortal man. They do not accept the immortality of the soul or eternal punishment, therefore, they hold that the wicked cease to exist completely after death and will not be raised to new life.
When Jesus told us to be alert and ready for his return, he also warned there would be false prophets. One of the most attractively marketed recent false “prophets” has been the Left Behind series, published by Tyndale House Press in Wheaton, Illinois. Since 1995, the series by Mr. Tim LaHaye and Mr. Jerry B. Jenkins has been a tool for active promotion of a fundamentalist theology of the end times in conflict with Catholic teachings. More than that, the series has been a vehicle for anti-Catholic sentiments by the way Catholics are characterized and treated in the plot line.
“The Antichrist’s deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism”…
“The kingdom will be fulfilled then, not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only in God’s victory over the final unleashing of evil”… (676-677).
the real danger of Left Behind is its attractiveness as a story of good people in a heroic battle against ultimate evil. Readers lacking a full understanding of Catholic scriptural teaching about the end times in many cases have internalized this fictional post-rapture time of tribulation when sinners are left to battle the Anti-Christ, because it sounds familiar and “biblical.”
Overall, these books reinforce an unhealthy and immature belief in a harshly judgmental God whose mercy we earn by good behavior.
These materials, about fictionalized end-times, popularize a common fundamentalist belief in a time of tribulation after the “rapture” (when the “good people” are secretly taken up overnight to Heaven) and before the Second Coming of Christ. This belief is not supported in Scripture.
2007-08-05 13:16:48
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answer #5
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answered by Anonymous
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From a literary perspective, the Left Behind books are less than impressive, even for fans of supermarket paperbacks.
The writing is mediocre—saturated with clichés, filled with wooden dialogue and two-dimensional characters.
But the writing and characters hardly matter. The real point of the series is to present a theological system, as evidenced by the seemingly endless pages filled with sermons, lectures, explanations about the Rapture, impending doom, and . . . well, the Rapture. In essence, the books are "tract-novels," stories wrapped around big chunks of proselytizing.
Two motives are at war in the pages of the Left Behind franchise. The first is a sincere desire to advance people’s knowledge of God’s prophetic words—what we may call a "prophet motive." The second is the simple desire to make a buck—plain, old, ordinary profit motive.
Tim LaHaye may be credited with a genuine desire to help people better understand the prophetic aspect of the Bible. The trouble is that his understanding of Bible prophecy is seriously defective. As a result, he spreads more error than knowledge. He leads people to needlessly obsess about and fear the future. And, however sincerely, he leads people away from true Christian faith.
There is nothing wrong with financial success, but when the means by which one achieves it involves spreading error and fear.
One hopes that—on the Judgment Day that their writings inch toward—LaHaye and Jenkins will find their efforts recognized as a sincere attempt (however misguided) to spread knowledge of God’s prophetic word. One fears that they will discover their work condemned as undertaken in the service of false profit, a tragic example of the authors trying to serve both God and mammon.
2007-08-05 12:02:21
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answer #6
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answered by Isabella 6
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This is a classic example of the lack of respect that the human race has for the WORD OF GOD. What we have here is an attempt, albeit a popular one, to sensationalize the BIBLE, because theologians don't have the ability to understand the real truth.. they fabricate their own theology and sensationalize it with emotional babble, so people believe it and are seriously misled and dissappointed when the truth is revealed.. If we would study what the whole truth is we would see that GOD'S plans are the best , and the most spectacular and the most rewarding..an example is CREATION.. how can you get better than that?
2007-08-05 11:46:41
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answer #7
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answered by spotlite 5
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Well, I believe that the whole 'rapture' theology stinks to high heaven!!!!!!
It's a doctrine of FEAR--and it's a LIE that ANY will get saved during the "end times"
Here the verses that say through OUT the entire book of Revelations that "they repented NOT"
Revelation 9:20, "And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet REPENTED NOT of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:"
Revelation 16:9, "And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they REPENTED NOT to give him glory."
Revelation 16:11, "And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and REPENTED NOT of their deeds."
It is a LIE that anyone will be saved during the time of the great tribulation. In fact it is further explained here:
What happens to those who don't believe during the great tribulation?
2 Thessalonians 2:8-12, "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them STRONG DELUSION, that they should believe a lie: That they ALL might be DAMNED who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
I could go on and on--but I think you've got the point.
BTW, witnessed to some JWs this afternoon--it was awesome!!!!
2007-08-05 16:04:55
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answer #8
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answered by steinbeck11 6
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it is not supported by the Bible..
There are so many items taken out of context and strange things added / misinterpreted by the people who put it together who claimed to be knowledgeable of the Bible but were not competent biblical scholars ...
it can be compared to the false theology that is the basis for the mormons....Just a hint of bible in the mess and people believe it instead of reading their Bible and finding out that there is no truth in the left behind or mormon....
It just breaks my heart when I see all those books, the movies, and people absorbing that lie like a sponge!!!!
My neighbor years ago lent me one of the first movies.. Just a, "hey got this movie would you like to barrow?" sure.. I watched it with out really knowing what it was....And the longer it played the more "WHAT THE??!!" told my neighbor why it was not , etc. not of the Bible, etc.. and burn it....
and to add more ignorance to the mess the TV preachers are spouting this left behind fallacy...... The History Channel is really doing a good job of screwing up Biblical history and theology, when will the 3 stooges be claimed as the 3 wise men episode be aired?They are using the left behind people as their sources for information that is wrong....
there are many web sites...what left behind left out...check it out..The left behind fallacy....
it is satan's way of producing a counterfeit so those who are believers are distracted from the truth by a very close lie....
we are living in the ends times and how better to steal from the Shepherd's flock than to leave a trail of sweet grass mixed with poison.... ( left behind, mormon, JW ) all of these have a "false story ending" regarding when Christ returns for his church.....
2007-08-05 12:05:04
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answer #9
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answered by coffee_pot12 7
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anyone that talks about a word that never appears in the bible is clueless. Clueless as to who Rev.chapters 2 and 3 are addressing. Clueless to the fact a "bed of disease" is the reward for a church system that won't return to the first work. Christians have a art for turning scripture into what they want. I believe that is addressed in chapter two
2007-08-05 11:36:56
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answer #10
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answered by Mark w 1
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