Honest opinon, what do you think these Early Church Father's are saying? Answer please!?

Question

St Augustine in De Doctrina Christiana: "What the apostle says pertains to this problem: 'For the letter killeth, but the spirit quickeneth', that is, when that which is said figuratively is taken as though it were literal, it is understood carnally. Nor can anything more appropriately be called the death of the soul than that condition in which the thing which distinguishes us from beasts, which is the understanding, is subjected to the flesh in the pursuit of the letter. He who follows the letter takes figurative expressions as though they were literal and does not refer the things signifies to anything else... He is a slave to a sign who uses or worships a significant thing without knowing what it signifies.

Church Father Origen: “Scripture contains an unhistorical element in-woven with the history, in order that the worthlessness of the latter may drive us to seek the spiritual meaning”

Origen state: “What man of sense will agree with the statement that the first, second and third days in which the evening is named and the morning, were without sun, moon and stars, and the first day without a heaven. What man is found such an idiot as to suppose that God planted trees in paradise in Eden, like a husbandman, and planted therein the tree of life, perceptible to the eyes and senses, which gave life to the eater thereof; and another tree which gave to the eater thereof a knowledge of good and evil? I believe that every man must hold these things for images, under which the hidden sense lies concealed” (Origen - Huet., Prigeniana, 167 Franck, p. 142).

What ya think they mean? Scriptures allegorical for esoteric things?

Answer 1

LOL-Sounds very Gnostic of you ;-)
(I think the'God/ Jesus is love' crowd would be Gnostic if they'd read about it)

Answer 2

With a nod to the learned answers here.

To answer your question, dear:

Augustine is saying that there are two ways to interpret inspired writings and that one of those wayswill almost invariably lead to mistakes that result in causing more confusion and more sinful behavior than the other way ever could. Augustine is warning people against taking a literal interpretation of Scripture as the only way to interpret Scripture, (are you listening fundamentalists?) One must also find the spiritual element in every aspect of the holy writings.
Take it in context w/hisAugustine's own life experiences.

Origen got a little pat with his teachings, always a danger when dealing with subjects (not that God is a subject) like God, Jesus and salvation. So do I, but I think I'm better at it than old Origen. He kept forgetting that most of his audience wasn't really interested in the fine points, just the important-to-them points. What Origen meant was that one should take that which appears to be fantastical in Scripture as a sign that there's a deeper meaning and you'd be wise to hunt it out and embrace it. He was right! Scripture itself says that it will confound the worldly-wise and they will be led astray simply because their pride will not allow them to admit to the need to be taught anything.

Hope this helped.

Answer 3

I would rather rely on what the Bible says rather than what the early Church fathers may be saying.

If we refer to the context of 2 Cor 3:6, where this phrase is located, Paul and the other ministers were made the minister of the new testament (Covenant) and it pertains to salvation through Christ's finished work (death). The Old covenant was ministered by Moses, upon which he was given "The Law". That pertains to "The letter" there.

Here is the Biblical interpretation..

The letter pertains to the Law, given to the Israelites, even the Israelites as a chosen nation of God at that time, was not able to fulfill it. For with the law, we have the knowledge of sin... and the wages of sin is death. No one can fulfill the law of God for it was written also in Rom.3:10 - 20 "No one is righteous." Rom. 3:23 - "For all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God"

The righteousness of God without the law is made manifest through Christ's finished work (His death). He wad made a quickening spirit (1 Cor 15:45; the last Adam there refers to Christ). Christ was the first one to have attained the promised resurrection (eternal life). After the death and resurrection of Christ, the Holy Spirit is now out working. If you believe in this salvation message, the Holy Spirit serves as your guarantee so you will inherit eternal life (Eph 1:13-14).

Answer 4

Origen's exegetical methods have recently formed the subject of fresh investigation both in the Protestant and the Roman Catholic camp. To Dr. Hanson, who teaches theology in the University of Nottingham, England, readers will be grateful for a lucid and comprehensive treatment of a great many of the pertinent questions. As the subtitle of his book indicates, Origen's work poses a twofold problem. Firstly, where lies the origin of his exegetical method? Did it grow out of the nature of the Scriptures and the Christian faith-so the French Jesuits de Lubac and Danielou-or is it due to outside influences? It can probably be said without exaggeration that all the materials necessary to answer this question have been gathered in Hanson's detailed and careful study. The second, and in many respects the more important problem, concerns the significance of the great Alexandrian theologian's exegesis. Has the modern Church to learn from him? Or would it be nearer to the truth to say that his allegorical method was hopelessly inadequate and indicate the working of an "arbitrary fancy" by which Origen read his own ideas into the text? This latter view is espoused by the author.

He begins with a history of the allegorical method down to Origen, in which the difference between Jewish allegory, on the one hand, an Alexandrian and Hellenistic allegory, on the other, is particularly emphasized. Essentially, the author holds, Origen depended on Philo, who in turn followed the Hellenistic line, notwithstanding his endeavors to remain within the confines of the Jewish faith. The correctness of that view depends to a large extent on the role allegory plays in the New Testament. By the weight of the evidence, Hanson feels constrained to admit that "allegory is a very likely device for the authors [of the New Testament] to use," though it very rarely becomes explicit in the tex (p. 77). However, he is anxious to emphasize that it is not Alexandrian allegory, for it regards history as something meaningful (p. 83). This difference prompts Dr. Hanson practically to discard any significance a Hellenistic type of exegesis would have for Biblical exegesis.

The second part of the book deals with Origen as an exegete. In great detail his relation to his predecessors and contemporaries, his handling of the text, and his views on inspiration and accommodation are discussed. In this connection, Bousset's fascinating study of the practices of the catechetical school in Alexandria would have helped the author to render more graphic the practical aspects of Origen's teaching and investigating. Gnostic influences upon Origen are discounted; rightly so far as theological ideas are concerned. But is it not likely that in his fight against literalism and for a spiritual understanding of the Bible, Origen would have seen his closest allies in Valentinus and Herakleon? Of great importance for the understanding of Origen's allegorical method in the juxtaposition of the chapters on inspiration and accommodation. Though Origen firmly believes that the Holy Spirit or the Logos has spoken through all the writers of the Old and the New Testament, he clearly distinguishes between the truthfulness of God's revelation, on the one hand, and the historical stages of spiritual perception, on the other. Only with the coming of Christ is mankind enabled fully to apprehend the spiritual meaning of the Scriptures.

The third part, dealing with Origen as an allegorist, offers the author's explanation of the reason why Origen adopted the allegorical method. The idea of a threefold sense of Scripture is interpreted as a practical device by means of which the Alexandrian scholar hoped to sell his theology to his contemporaries. Our author criticizes him particularly for attempting to get rid of the historical element in the Bible.

Answer 5

No. That became a made of submit-Reformation revisionist historic past. Even Martin Luther did no longer have faith that, he in basic terms desperate the pope had became into the Antichrist. Hoffman and Menno had comparable delusions, which led to Anabaptism. Calvin succorred secularists to the left and suitable using fact they gave him the time of day and released his social status into the stratosphere. incredibly Wycliffe style of started out that nonsense. heavily pompous literalistic philosopher, yet an enhanced than able author. That finished theory is perpetuated in the secular worldwide to maintain non-Catholic Christians from reducing the umbilical twine to politics that they choose for using fact they don't have authentic management. properly, they do, yet they proceed to miss approximately it. sixty 8 million individuals flow to Catholic Church. the subsequent greatest team are the Southern Baptists with sixteen million. discern it out.

Answer 6

I would not take seriously the testimony of a man who deliberately cut off his own testicles, even if what he said made perfect sense.

As for Augustine, his besetting sin was vanity, which he fondly imagined to be the purest humility.

Answer 7

Too complicated for me. What is important is that we believe in a God who is all forgiving and that on the last day, we will all be saved.

Answer 8

What gibberish. They were saying that they had too much sacramental wine.

Answer 9

WE WERE WRONG, Now We're in hell