How can this kind of attitude be tolerated - L E G A L L Y...?

Question

Why in the world are religions allowed to act on behalf of the government to perform marriage - it's a legal and binding contract recognized under the law - so what happened to separation of church and state on this matter?

And... how come a church can say, "Oh no, we won't let any gay people get married here.... We're against it." or "Sorry, no inter racial weddings are going to take place on our property... We don't allow it." and "Atheist couples... no way can you get married here."

I mean really.... think about how this kind of attitude would be received in a post office. "Oh no... you can't mail things here because you're gay and that mixed couple behind you in line can just turn around and take a hike, too? We don't carry mail for their kind. They might even be atheists. Good God!"

What's up with this kind of BS anyhow? Has everyone forgotten that discrimination of this type is called bigotry?

Any opinions...???

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By the power vested in me, (personally and NOT in any god, gods or BS organization; acting as an agent of governmental law...) I now pronounce you man and wife.

Don't forget that weddings are officiated by licensed individuals.
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Answer 1

I have been saying the exact thing for the longest time!

When it comes to a church marriage, it's different because a church has its own rules and they can refuse to marry someone if they wish. As far as a civil marriage with a mixed race couple and people of a different religion (or no religion at all), I think that's illegal to deny these individuals a marriage in a civil marriage setting (a courthouse or a marriage by a justice of the peace).

However, when it comes to gay marriage someone pointed out something that is absolutely correct. While marriage is a legal insistution that should not discriminate or pay attention to religion, the legal laws are archaic and still currently call for one man and woman (in most places). And the law COULD change, true, BUT it's up to the voters to vote the people in office that would change these laws. And unfortunately most of the country is too homophobic to vote the people that would allow gay marriage.

Yeah, it f'ing sucks. We just have to work to making people more enlightened and try to change minds and prejudices.

Answer 2

Actually, ministers don't act as agents of the government in these cases. They conduct religious weddings, then register them with the State. The State is only concerned with the legal registration, the church is only concerned with the religious ceremony.
You do not have to be an ordained minister to perform a wedding or register a marriage, but if you do want to become an ordained minister (and perform weddings) you can do so in minutes for free at the Church of Spiritual Humanism. http://www.spiritualhumanism.org/directory.htm, and even get wedding certificates and instructions for State registration.
The institution of marriage is old, pervasive, and spans many cultures, so it is not surprising that it has become incorporated into law, tax code, etc. But I think the best solution to this problem is simply extricate the State and law from marriage. Allow it to be a purely cultural or religious institution, and don't incorporate it into law at all.

Interesting side note: Wedding ceremonies are a pagan custom. Judaism had no such thing until they adopted it from pagans much later. You were "married" when you bought a bride from her father, or in the case of a woman who wasn't spoken for, when you took her home, f___ed her, and declared her your property.

Answer 3

The church aspect of the marriage is symbolic. It's not needed for a marriage to take place from a legal standpoint. Due to this, I don't see any discrimination here. If it were a case where one had to go through the church to be married, and there was no other means of doing so, then I think you could make a case for discrimination.

Conversely, forcing a church to recognize a marriage from a spiritual standpoint and/or forcing them to carry out a marriage ceremony in a situation where their religious beliefs contested it - some could argue this violates the religious freedom of the church. The government isn't allowed to mandate how a religion practices its religious beliefs.

Answer 4

Your whole premise is based upon a mistaken notion. Religions do not act on behalf of governments to perform marriages. The concept of a marriage ceremony started in the Church and provided the couple with a religious blessing upon their marriage. The government had nothing to do with this and held no opinion or requirements on it. Its development through the ages came only from the Church.
The same is also true of baptisms and death ceremonies.
This is the reason genealogists find most of their records in the Church records and not the "city" records of the time.

It was only in the past couple of hundred years that the government became interested in who was getting married and such. Thus they required a license to keep track of them.

When a couple gets married in a church ceremony, the only requirement that the government requires is is the pronouncement "I now pronounce you man and wife" (the "I do" statements don't matter to the government either), and the signed license. That is all.

If you were to have gotten married in the USSR, you would walk up to a window, ask the clerk for the form, he would fill out certain parts of it , the couple the rest. When the couple paid the required fee, the clek gave them a copy and kept the other copy. they left a married couple. Thatis a state marriage.

Since a couple coming to get married in a church do so with their own desire to have a church wedding, the church can determine whom they will allow to be married in their church. They have the legal right to act according to their belives and the First Amendment allows them to do so. The example of the Pst Office does not compare with the actions of the Church and is not a valid argument.

Remember "The government shal make NO laws in respect to religion.. It does not speak about a seperation of the Church from having anything to do with government, but rather states that the government CAN NOT tell the Church what to do or believe. Go back and read the letter of Jefferson from which the phrase "seperation of church and state" is based.

What gets me is that gay couples are trying to force the Church to marry them when they know full well it goes against their principles. All they are doing is attempting to make their "sinful" relationship acceptable. In so doing they are the one forcing their beliefs upon us!!! Why don't you speak out about that.

Answer 5

Legally, Marriage was begun by GOD and Churches are supposed to be operating out of HIS Precepts. The Government has sanctioned Church Weddings because they were the only ones done for quite some time and the government has stepped in and taken over for non-Christian couples to "wed". The inter-racial marriages are NOT against what is told in the New Testament. They are sanctioned there. "Gays" are not married in any true Churches because they are an abomination of GOD'S LAWS. I would think that a GAY would not want a true Church Wedding. Have a wonderful LORD'S DAY and a glorious week.
Thanks,
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Answer 6

I can't speak for all countries but in the US all marriages are essentially civil marriages. Clergy are legally authorized to perform the ceremony but once that happens, the recording of the marriage certificate is the same, no matter who preformed the ceremony. It's the state that decides who can and can't get married. If the state issues a marriage license but a church refuses to perform the ceremony, the couple can still get a judge or even, in a few states, a notary public to perform the ceremony.

Answer 7

If you take the time to read the Constitution of the United States there is no clause that says "separation of church and state." The only thing it says is that the legislature shall not make any laws making one religion (i.e. Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, etc.) for the nation.

Marriage is one of the Rites established by God and therefore should not be interfered with by the government. The Bible also states that marriage is between a man and a woman, not man to man or woman to woman. Therefore in a church where the Bible is taught as God's Holy Word I would hope a priest would say no to a same sex union.

Answer 8

It would NOT be government they are acting for, but the couple - who are free to take the license to their local courthouse or "shop" to find a "minister" (who has in many cases paid a fee to be authorized by the state to do it in the first place) that will do what they want.

... This is like saying we shouldn't have people authorized as notaries. They provide a service to the public, not the government... And I certainly DON'T WANT government telling them what they MUST, CAN OR CAN NOT DO or how much they can charge, all of which would be interfering in the VOLUNTARY "business agreement" between private parties... No government SHOULD have that right.

Answer 9

The church doesn't legally perform the marriage. To get married as far as the government is concerned requires signing papers. Those papers still get signed. The church is just responsible for the pomp and circumstance.

Answer 10

No. If ever I think I am, it always turns out to be displaced emotion, most easily described as loneliness. Upon further analysis, it is more like anger at my own wrong-doings followed by self-pity with some nostalgia thrown in for good measure. Not loneliness. I do not feel that.