A safety and recall challenge to ford lovers.?

Question

Ford holds the record for the most cars in a single recall 7.9 million cars in 1996 for defective ignition switches that could cause a car to catch fire.Just announced there is another recall for the cruise control there have been six recalls since 1999 totalling 10.4 million cars again the problem can cause the car to catch fire.The insurance institute said of the last generation f150 that they didn't believe they had ever tested a vehicle that did as poorly in a crash test.The early mustangs had a drop in gas tank that acted as the trunk floor and were known to cause the car to burst into flames in a rear end collision filling the passenger compartment with flaming fuel.the pinto is known for dropping it's drive shaft and rupturing the gas tank bursting into flames.I have followed cars for years and i don't believe there is another car manufacturer with a worse safety history or a worse recall history I challenge you to show proof of a car manufacturer with a worst history for both.

I have asked this question politely and I would like honest provable by the numbers facts good luck I believe you'll need it.Also believe it or not my father is a retired Ford exec and I have studied automotive history and manufacturing and love old muscle cars.

Also I live in Arizona and we have had a few law enforcement officers burn to death in crown vics because of poor fuel tank placement.Ford has worked to rectify the problem for law enforcement but there has been no mention of a civilian fix.

The crown vics gas tank is placed in front of the axle and when the car is hit the rearend pushes forward and ruptures the tank and enters the passenger compartment.Ford fixed it by putting a plastic cover over the tank filled with a substance I believe is called black majic it suppresses fire and the miltary is using the stuff in Iraq.A police officer just survived a crash and the stuff works.I am looking for recall numbers for who has the most while you may commend Ford for fixing a problem I prefer to commend the company's that do it before they sell them to the public.To me there is no substitute for quality engineering and safety first.

For John Paul qauloty engineering is forthought of the drunk rearending the car or front or side impacts.I realize no car can be built 100% safe but some manufacturers are much better at it then others and I believe Ford is the worst.

Bartzan I have worked on many cars and it always seems that when I work on a ford the engineers hate mechanics.I own an 89 e350 with the 7.3 diesel and it absolutely stinks to work on.I don't abuse my vehicles and it only has 80,345 actual miles on it and the rearend, transmission,passenger side exhaust manifold ,water pump,radiator,starter,and low pessure fuel lines have all been replaced its pathetic and I'm not making it up.Everything about working on it is a pain I have never had such a hard time changing an exhaust manifold and the dipstick is placed thru it between the exhaust ports it took all day just to change it and I wiped out the dipstick so that added some more time.If you can work on Fords all day all I can say is have at it because Lord knows I can't.

All American I didn't say the new f 150 I said the last edition and I believe the proper name would be the heritage edition notice it's shorter than normal truck sales span.Wether you like it or not a companys recall and safety record is part of it's history.Safety is important!If you think I'm making this stuff up please read the answers from other Ford people who are car knowledgable and they will verify everything I have stated is the truth.You can point to all the recent awards you want but Ford has had major recall and safety Issues in it's past recent and old.A few rewards one year doesn't undue decades of problems.It's up to Ford to prove it's self in the long term not in a year but in many and prove its a changed company.Cars with a lot of rewards can be next years lemons.

One more thing all american there are many video's on you tube of dodge dragging the hell out of fords on you tube best selling maybe most powerfull don't think so and I've owned both.The new twin turbo diesel might be more powerfull but given the ford diesel history I'm willing to bet the dodge cummins will have better longevity it is allready the longest lasting fact look it up.

Thanks so far for the great responses I don't mean for it to come across as a bash Ford question it is meant to be more of a reality check and I also did say to mention problems from other manufacturers.So I look forward to more answers and hopefully it will continue to be more answering honestly and politely then in negative attack mode.Gearbox one excellent points about the corvair which Ralph Nader wrote a book about unsafe at any speed.Also about gm's external fuel tanks on trucks.Also please star the question so it can be viewed safety is important and others should know about the issues being discussed.Also let me point out that toyota had every model produced for sale in the USA recalled in one year I believe it was 2005 or 2006 So rejoice ford,gm and Chrysler people I don't believe any American car manufacturer has stooped that low.

Bigbasshb either way it is a question you didn't answer.Can you name another manufacturer with a worse safety and recall history?That is the question the challenge is finding that company and being able to prove it.I am more than certain that this is an appropriate place to ask this question and I am sure that there is a Ford person knowledgable enough to answer it and honest enough to tell the truth when they do.

So far so good mike k I figured you would put in effort into it.Take your time and I'll extend the question if need be.I want the best and most accurate answer and that will be my pick.If I don't think there is one I'll delete the question.Also the best answer isn't the one I'm necessarilly looking for it's the most truthfull and most easily backed upped by links or common knowledge of those truly knowledgable about cars.

On the ignition switch recall I remember seeing a story on dateline or one of those type shows a while back that they had hired an expert to examine a burnt ford with a dead woman inside and the expert believed it was caused by a faulty ignition.The truth may be impossible to find because manufacterers usually don't release the amount of cars damaged by defects prior to recalls.I'm going to check out the ntsb.

So you all know I posted a question in toyota about their having every car model recalled within a single year and asking what year it was and if any other manufacterer had done that and who they were.I posted it around the same time as I did this one and there has been only one answer and it isn't correct.It seems Ford people are more honest and interested in safety.I have been into all the big three's cars but I do have a love for mopars and drag racing them when it's in the budget.Thru racing I have gained a respect for safety and thru nascar I disliking of rules.Thanks again.

mike k using your mycarstats link I looked for models with most recalls For Ford the f150 152 for gm the suburban 152 for dodge 131 caravan.Then i counted the amount of models and divided into the amount of recalls Ford had 77 models with in average of 20.9 gm had 82 with 19.1 and dodge had 48 with 20.6.Using your link and my math Ford and gm are tied for most recalls on a single unit and Ford has the highest recall average per model.I will add one other thing plymouth which no longer exist had 173 caravan recalls.I am going to go back for a break down of who's 1/2 ton has the least recalls and a total model count and recall # with a total corporate average per vehicle.I will do that sometime tomorow.

This is the complete list of active divisions within the big three the number of total models and total recalls and the avg recalls per model.Ford 99 models 2147 total recalls and a 21.6 per model recall avg.It was actually slightly higher if you divide to the hundreths over Chrysler.Chrysler 81 models 1752 recalls and an avg of 21.6 recalls per model.Gm 197 models 3425 recalls and an avg of 17.5 recalls per model.In the total numbers including closed divisions Gm is 213 models 3681 recalls and an avg 17.2 recalls per model.Chrysler is 96 models 2217 recalls and a recall average of 23.1.Chrysler has shown the most amount of improvement but like ford has really got to work hard to cath up with gm and all three have got a really hard time ahead to catch up to the asian imports.I am going to run numbers strictly on plymouth as they were a real drag on chryslers numbers.

So far the most recalled car I have found is the honda accord.

Sorry I forgot you might want the number it has been recalled 184 times.

With that recall I decided to do hondas numbersThey have 19 makes and 514 recalls for an avg of 27 recalls per model.

Answer 1

Here is a well researched and thorough question. Since Ford sells more cars then dodge or chevy they are going to have more recalls but the trick is who had the highest percentage of recalls per vehical sold, that will truely be a better indicator of the worst recall history. As far as the worst saftey history, the information provided in the question is much to inadequate to determine the "worst saftey history" The only thing we can determine from that information is what car company had the most recalls. As far as saftey goes, the only things mentioned are fire and recalls. To determine the "worst saftey history" you need to take all the cars made by each manufacturer and see who has had the most injuries per car on the road. The information provided does absolutely nothing to determine "the worst saftey history". It does prove the ford had the most recalls but maybe not the "worst recall history". That would be the company with the most recalls per vehical sold. So that answers the question about showning proof of a company with a worst saftey history, you havent show any evidence that shows ford has the worst saftey history. I will research the recall question and continue my post later.

Just got back from my first research and just like I thought, not a single one of the 7.9million cars that were recalled in 1996 for the defective ignition switches had a reported car fire caused by the faulty ignition switch. Ill be back soon with more info

Ok, heres what I found out. I can not find info that relates the specific type of car to fatal or serously injured accidents. The best reference for this would be the crash test dummies and the saftey ratings given to the vehical is. As far as recalls goes, Im still working on the number of vehicals sold by each company but I have gotten a total recall number. From 1990-2008, Ford had 1615, chevy (not inclucing GMC) had 1569 and Dodge had 992. Im guessing since 1990 Ford has probally sold 40% more vehicals then Dodge which would make dodge the company with the worst recall history (between dodge and ford). I just need to find the amount of cars sold, it shouldnt take me too much longer. Im guessing the final results will be chevy has the worst %, followed by Dodge, then Ford.
http://www.mycarstats.com/auto_recalls/auto_recalls.asp

2n1, you could be correct about your comment on the ignition switch. I agree with you that the truth will be near impossible to find. If you find something about that dateline piece or other info on a documented incident please paste a web page so I can send it to ford because they are the ones I got the info from saying there was never a car fire caused by the ignition switch prior to the recall

If anyone knows a site where i can find the total number of cars sold by dodge, ford, and chevy between 1990 and now please post it.

2n1, yesterday I did the exact same breakdown of recalls per model as you did, you just posted it before I did. Now if I could just find out the number of recalls per car sold I would be complete.

I havent quit lookin I just have been busy, ill post my final findings on fri. Who would of though honda would lead the way so far.

To be completely honest, I havent had enough time to dedicate to this question to give the best answer possible. There are so many different things to research for this question, we could honestly type a muti page report to give the correct answer. From the info found it does seem like honda has the most recalls per car model. As far as saftey goes, ford deffinately doesnt have the worst according to the results from the crash tests. I am however concerned with the police car fires. I am a ford fan and have many friends that are police officers so to those that dont know me, dont think for one second I am anti ford by any stretch of the imagination. I just think that if i were building a car that i knew was for police use, I would have built it a lot safer then ford did in the case of the crown vics. I think at least initially, they deffinately droped the ball here. Below is a site that really open my eyes to the number of car fires associated with the police crown vic.
http://www.crownvictoriasafetyalert.com/timeline.html

Answer 2

I don't know if I have the best answer, but I'll give you my best opinion. A recall is simply saying that they made a defective product. Every vehicle has it's faults. Transmissions in the Dodge vehicles were weak for many years. Dex Cool in the GM vehicles causes many problems. GM's 3.1 and 3.4 motors are known to have problems with the intake gaskets leaking and GM knows of the problem and will not recall it. For that reason I commend Ford for admitting that they have a problem and at least try to fix it. As for the Crown Vic's gas tanks I don't know exactly where they are placed underneath the vehicle, but they have to be placed somewhere. Anytime a wreck occurs you are at risk for a fire or explosion if the fuel tank is hit. Where exactly was Ford to place the fuel tank? Any vehicle hit in the right spot could cause a fire. It just so happened that it was a Crown Vic. The same thing could've happened if the Police were driving an Impala.

Answer 3

To correct you on one fact.. the fuel tank is located behind the axle... the accident pushes the gas tank into the axle.

The reason Ford gives for not putting in a civilian fix, is that most people would not be subjected to a 45mph+ to dead on collision from the rear (as police and taxis are)

Ford pays for the kit which is just rubber protectors to put over the sharp areas for police only.. but will sell it to anyone wanting one.

To the person saying only two related fires to the cruise recall is wrong... How I know? I've seen three that caught fire personally! Usually it was people informed of the recall and still never had it done... I think I still got pictures from one of them that caught fire in fact.

Bartzan is right on the engineering half of it... I've seen it personally. I've had to deal with these engineers from Ford already... Most have the experience but I find most of the design faults as of late (such as the threads) were from the Ford of Europe people... Some of the worst products that came from Ford in the last 10 years were designed in Europe.. not North America... Bartzan knows what I'm talking about...Focus, contours, some of the escorts parts...

The 1997-2003 didn't do worst if I remember but it was a D stared vehicle for the frontal crash if I remember as the way the frame bent on the truck back toward the cab... There have been a lot more worse than that if I remember.. just worst I think in the segment.

Yeah Ford's had some screwups with most recalls as of late dealing with supplier design issues (the cruise recall is actually a part defect where brake fluid leaks through seals in the switch over time occasionally).. I haven't had no issues with the Ford's I've owned however.

But we are bringing up vehicles going back to the 1960s... We could talk about the Corvair from chevrolet or a car I own with the seat belts in the door.. which at the time was considered one of the biggest safety hazards GM came up with other makers (Or what about them external gas tanks on chevy pickups?)


I agree Ford has had some issues.. but one thing I will stand by is Ford at least will admit defeat and finally recall them... and as of late willing to admit it faster than other makers ...I'm still waiting on GM to recall all of them faulty intake gaskets that blow water and can lock up a motor going down a highway...

On the Ford vs Dodge thing... It depends upon the motor, transmission, and rear end set up of each truck..I've seen people hate power stroke, hate duramaxs and hate the cummins motor (which although is the same motor, is basically redesigned in fuel delivery and such every few years)... Ford would actually love to have that cummins engine... We offer it in sizes dodge doesn't make, but dodge has a contract for the small pickup market.. Dodge were actually supposed to move over to a mercedes diesel.. but apparently it was backed off....

My question is, if you hate the ford so much, why own one?

Answer 4

Guilty, as charged. Ford seems to love hiring fresh from college engineers, who make serious design errors, and it seems no one more expereinced is reviewing these before they get into production. I personally have never had any issues with any Fords, and I've owned a bunch. Obviously, the problems do exist, and untill Ford pulls it's collective head out of it's ****, I see no change forthcoming. I work as a mechanic for a dealer, and some of the engineering designs are so poor, I wonder if they should hire some mechanics to slap the engineers around a bit to wake them up. You have omitted many recalls I would have included, not for the large numbers, but the sheer idiocy of them. Like rear wheels falling off the Focus because the threads were the wrong direction on the wheel nuts. Who is designing this stuff? Year one engineers, it seems. With no one to check the booboos. It is unfathomable that a company can let this continue unchecked, and has for so long.
Not an answer nor an excuse, simply my perception of the base issue.

Answer 5

My Mother owns a 96 windstar and it has no Ignition Problems. She bought it used and in 2000 and it has no recall stickers on it. It has 185,000 and has far outlived the bad rap given to it by Old Popular Mechanics reveiws. it has even been in an accident. what are it's Recalls? I do have to admit, I was in an accident in a 1989 taurus SHO and the vehicle I struck was a 94 taurus GL. My Car drove away from the accident and the other was totalled. the only mdifference between the two cars was Body styling and the engine yet the other car just Caved. Why. the end result is don't beleive everything you hear or read and only half of what you see!!!. I need a Beer.

Answer 6

I think your full of crap. The new f150 crash tests were better than all others. Every maker has had a number of recalls. Its funny that you are so sure of your false info, not taking into account that Ford has the most powerfull and best selling truck for 3 decades, and that the fusion beat all import competition in quality and reliability. Even the new taurus is out selling the competition. Their was only 2 reports of fire due to the cruise controll problem. More recalls just proves that Ford recognized certain problems and corrected them, unlike others who ignore and lie about defects so they dont look bad.
Anybody can come up with bullcrap issues. I can go back 30 years and bring up stats that would blow your mind.
The only problem I see is someone thats car quality uneducated that doesnt deserve to drive a Ford.
You belive what you want, and buy what you want, it will just keep the price of my Fords down. Check todays stats as far as power and quality and You will eat those bull sh-- stats you have been lead to belive by the less fortunate competition.

Answer 7

I will agree that Ford had a lot issues in the late 90s, a lot of which are leading to their financial preblems of today. But in recent years, Ford has had an above average reliability record, which happens to be better than GM, Chrysler, Mercedes, Nissan, BMW, Mitsubishi, and many more. In fact Ford's reliability record as of lately is approaching Toyota, and some Ford models actually are more reliable than the Toyota and Honda in the same class. Look at the safety ratings of Ford's cars. They are either leading or nearly leading the crash safety ratings on almost all their models. So if anything, we should be praising Ford for turning things around as much as they have been lately.

Answer 8

I don't think 1963 1/2 mustangs gas tanks caused as many fires as did the Pinto? Seems as if you have come across why Ford is selling off Jaguar Volvo and Range Rover. A company built on the principal of make it cheeper each year. Ford's lack of caring. How about the brake light switch. Located on the master cylinder that has burnt down many houses? And how many people have to be killed or burned? Over all why has a company who cares so little about people been allowed to sell comsumer goods. Police cars hit from behind it is the drunk driver fault the gas tank opens up and covers the police officer in fuel and doors jamb so they cannot get out!

Answer 9

Just because you put a ? on the end of a statement still doesn't make it a question.
This is a place to ask questions.
Next time ask a question.
You should add your challenge to a ford forum.

Edit: Now finally you asked a ? "Can you name another manufacturer with a worse safety and recall history?".
My answer is no I can't... but I also don't really care either. Been driving a ford of some sort or another for years & I'm not impressed. Between their junk transmissions & just poor quality products I would rather drive a chevy but can't afford them so I'm stuck with these ford for now. Just wanted to bust your b@lls for making me read that long statement. lol
No hard feelings. :)

Edit: Even though I didn't really care I did get curious This one was easy. http://www.autooninfo.net/USSafetyRecallHistory.htm
Just remember this is only for the top 4 in U.S.
Check this one out.

Answer 10

i have a 1995 ford f150 4 by 4 with cruise control and it got recalled in 2005 10 years after it was built and it ant never gave me no trouble i think the problem is where the people buy the cars or trucks and cant afford to pay for them so they find a good way to make it burn and make it look like a defective part so the insurance on it would pay it off