Christians: I *really don't get it? Please explain this to me.?

Question

God created mankind (Adam and Eve) and they sinned so He cast them out of the Garden of Eden, right?

But God is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent (omni-X), right? So He should have known that they would sin. Let's go under that assumption because the one thing we can attribute to the Abrahamic God, presumably, is omni-X. Now, from what I've gathered, Adam and Eve had a choice - free will - but even so God knew what they would do before they did it.

So from what I can tell, God specifically created mankind knowing beforehand that it would sin, be cast out of the Garden, and then have to undergo eons of suffering as a result of our nature.

Is that right? Please feel free to show me where my logic is flawed but PLEASE don't tell me that God's intentions are unknown to us or that God love us etc.

Based on this logic, God created us knowing we would fail in the paradise He set up for us and then suffer for our nature.

That seems a bit... idk.

LadyG: So God isn't omni-X? If there's a "possibility" but not a certainty then God doesn't "know"?

Conundrum: I *did*. And not to my satisfaction.

Vol:

1. It's a forum to ask questions regarding religion and spirituality. Anyone's free to ask and answer questions. Sorry.

2. I'm not an atheist. I'm agnostic. I live my life by relatively universal ethical guidelines as most people do. On the other hand, I leave room for the possibility that there is a God and my question is intended to critically analyze the religions of others so I can find the one for me. I would think you would be able to defend your faith. If not, then I wonder why you believe as you do.

Fuzzy: One of the better responses, in my opinion. You are correct that I began with a premise (openly, for transparency). Of course, if one rejects the premise the argument may be made invalid. Some might see this as a "cheap trick" but I applaud your openness with regard to your faith.

Answer 1

Same old questions....

Answer 2

yea dude, ive asked this same question on here many of times. last answer i got was "you should learn not to think for yourself and just follow the bible"....umm yea sure.

anyway, this is one of the many paradox's, contridictions, etc found in the bible. Christians always get mad at questions like this. I mean come on, if God knows everything, then he knows our choices before hand, hence how could we really have free will in the first place? and isnt God all about love and forgiveness? Why are we still feeling the wrath of a mistake that was made thousands of years ago? why do we have to pay for someone elses sin? wheres the forgiveness?

Answer 3

You are correct in your assessment, but incorrect in your premise concerning free will.

God could have barred Satan from the garden, and barred him from influencing Adam and Eve.

Free will implies one knows what all their options are, and has all available information in order to make the best choice.

This rarely happens. Just look at politics. People are rarely aware of what the consequences of a particular choice, or they are given limited choices.

So why was it all done the way it was done? The answer is simple.

Experience makes for a great teacher. When we come to the end, everyone will know what the results are of making the wrong choice.

[Added later, after seeing your follow up comments]

You appear to have good clarity of thought, and a desire to assess things critically. Good for you. There is someone I know in Houston you should meet, who is similar to you in thought.

Also, I wouldn't take what many have to say here as being an authoritative sample of Christianity...

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Answer 4

We have to go to the end of the story for that one.

Many theologians teach that in the end God will bring out something much more wonderful than if man had never sinned, as Jesus' redemptive act was much more than what was necessary to save us.

For example, if we exercise the virtues of courage and perseverance under suffering, a reward awaits us that would not have otherwise been available if suffering were not there to test us - God does not cause suffering, but permits it to bring about a greater good.

Many people ask the same thing about Job - however, if you go to the end of the story, Job is given back twice as much as he lost in the first place, which he could not have had, had he not suffered what he did.



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Answer 5

I don't have that spiritual insight but I do know what Romans 5:18-19 says, "Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
God's ideal plan was that man would not sin, but we did, so God sent his son to take our sins so we wouldn't be held accountible for them if we would just believe in Him.
Aint God good.

Answer 6

Think of it in the mind of parent and child. You give the child a set of rules. You as the parent know that child, you know that child is going to do just the opposite of what you say when the opportunity to eat that cookie arises. That child loves cookies so much, and you know this, because you love cookies too, and that is your baby. And when that child is out of your site and the time has come for him to make his decision to obey you or not, and he rationalize in his child mind, "Daddy is not here, I'll just eat one cookie" When you get home and the cookie is gone, you may even smile to yourself shake your head at the way your child could not resist that cookie. but if you are a good parent you will still have to punish that child for not listening to you. because the next time the child does not listen it may be a life threatening situation. and no one is the blame on that one but you because you failed to teach the child to obey authority. and bam, now your kid is in prison because he has a a problem with authority. Everything has consequences.

Answer 7

Quote: But God is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent (omni-X), right

Answer: Got is neither omniscient nor omnipresent; he is however almighty (omnipotent).

Ask yourself why he sent angels to Sodom and Gomorrah to check how bad things were down there? If he was omniscient would this be reasonable?

Why did he test Job to see what was in his heart, etc, etc?

See this link:
http://bythebible.page.tl/God.htm

Answer 8

God gave us a free will, and God also knew what would happen, that we would sin. Not only that, but God also used our free will for His will to happen. Mind-boggling, I know, but its something only God can do. We don't know how He doens't, but wouldn't that make us equivalent to Him? We aren't. People try to understand God fully, but we can only know what the Bible gives us.

So we have free will, and God uses our free will to let His will be done. In the end, God knew what would happen, and gave us free will. But in the end, His will was done. It's amazing, Praise our God, the most awesome God ever, and the only one!!!!

\o/ Praise God!!! \o/

Answer 9

God created humankind to fellowship with. he also wanted us to love Him. If we didn't have freewill it wouldn't be love, love is a choice. However, God knowing this would happen also planned our redemption. So in other God created knowing we would wound Him in the worse way possible, and according to the law sin causes death so He took our punishment so we can get back with Him. For God so loved the world....John 3:16.
That's how much God loves us.

Answer 10

It is hard to hard for us to understand at times but God did know that Adam & Eve would sin--he knows that we will too. But he did give us free will--to choose.We know what he wants us to do. I wish that I was able to explain it better
As Paul said about himself--I do what I know not to do and don't do what I know I should do. We are all like that
And if Adam & Eve had not sinned --someone els would have down the road

Answer 11

though obvious a much different level. Why does a father of
a teenage son give the boy keys to the family car. Truly,
what father expects that boy to follow all speed laws, do
only "pure" things and get home in time ?We'd like it if
all the rules were followed (they won't be)--- but there'll
be forgiveness, even though in our heart we KNEW.