The phrase "past time is infinite" is false. This is proveable by the definitions of the words. "Infinite" means, according to dictionary.com, "unbounded or unlimited; boundless; endless," "endless" being the key definition. If something is endless, then it obviously does not have an end to reach; it is unreachable; it cannot be achieved. Now the definition of "past" is "of, having existed in, or having occurred during a time previous to the present." The key word in here is "occurred." Past time has occurred; it has been achieved. So, saying "Past time is infinite" is contradictory. It's the same as saying " The achieved is unachieveable." So, the opposite must be true: past time must be finite, there must be a beginning. And there also must have been something or Someone to start it; something outside of time. Time is that which measures change. So whatever started it must not change. God does not change, and He lives outside of time. Can you refute this?
2007-08-02 09:18:08 · 11 answers · asked by ptbc 2 in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
Why can't things exist outside of time? Just because we can't imagine it?
2007-08-02 09:29:48 · update #1
God exists in the spiritual world, which also has no time for, it does not change. God started the change, which we call time. He is the unmoved mover. He is not limited to time.
2007-08-02 09:43:34 · update #2
My argument was kinda shortened. The full one can be found here:
http://barney.gonzaga.edu/~dschafer/secondftimepaperphilo.html
2007-08-04 05:27:12 · update #3
laura_dove1, I just wanted to see if this argument could be refuted. I've seen others been disproved and I wanted to see if this could be, too. And yes I still will believe it. God hasn't been proven to me by words, but by what He has done in my life. I knew this wouldn't make any theists, but it did make you think.
2007-08-04 05:31:43 · update #4
hey stym, you say that there was a beginning and that there is no cause outside of time, which means there is no cause before the beginning. If the universe has no cause, then how is there a universe. Something can't come from nothing. Something had to have caused it. And if that something were in time, he wouldn't have caused it because it because for him to be there, time would have to be there. There must be something outside of time to cause time. The only thing that could exist outside of time, I believe, is God. If you can think of anything else, email me.
2007-08-04 05:39:15 · update #5
Hey delfuego, I looked at dictionary.com and found that the definition of the universe is:
the totality of known or supposed objects and phenomena throughout space. Note the "throughout space" part. God doesn't live in space. He's a spiritual being, and spiritual beings, by definition, don't take up space.
"spirit":conscious, incorporeal being, as opposed to matter.
Matter takes up space, spirits don't. If you want me to explain it more thoroughly, email me.
2007-08-04 05:53:34 · update #6
marson80, I don't see your reasoning. Read the article I posted earlier, then email me with more explanation. Also, Eric_putkonen, the great historic philosophers don't agree with what you said. They showed that the past has happened. Read the article.
2007-08-04 06:01:18 · update #7
Finally Kjelstad, just because something is infinite, doesn't mean it can't exist. The number system is infinite because it's impossible to reach the end, it doesn't have limits. But it still exists. The past has been reached, so it can't be infinite. God is infinite because He isn't limited by anything. He has no end. He is unreachable by our standards because we could never be as great as He is. We could never fathom how great he is. We have limits, God does not.
2007-08-04 06:10:50 · update #8
OK, but by your standards, God must be finite as well.
2007-08-02 09:22:38 · answer #1 · answered by Anonymous · 1⤊ 0⤋
Easy.
Time is a measurement of Change. So, in order to effect change, it would have to reside within the known universe, as time doesnt exist outside of space. Therefore, if God created the universe he HAD TO DO SO from within the universe. But, you say he exists outside the universe. Since the dictionary.com definition of universe is "everything that is known to exist", and God exists outside of this, then God does not exist.
Can you refute this?
2007-08-02 16:27:15 · answer #2 · answered by ? 5 · 0⤊ 0⤋
I cannot refute that time had a beginning, and actually, I think it did a little over 12 billion years ago.
But you assume that there is a cause outside of time, which is illogical. Cause and effect require time. Outside of time our concept of causality falls apart.
The other flaw in your argument is that if something outside of the universe (maybe in a time frame of its own) caused the universe to start along with our time, then the same rules should apply for that outer universe and your cause must have yet another cause in yet another universe.
In short, you are right about time having a beginning, and wrong in assuming an outer cause that is conveniently inside a time frame and outside of all time frames.
2007-08-02 16:26:21 · answer #3 · answered by stym 5 · 0⤊ 0⤋
not a very good argument. I believe in God but just because we don't have a word for what you are explaining it doesn't make true. It's like numbers...we use the number 0 for the beginning when we start to count numbers, but in reality there is an infinate negative number...so there is no start really, just one that we make up. The same applies...time is forever, time was and always will be, we as humans cannot compute somthing outside of time.
2007-08-02 16:28:55 · answer #4 · answered by Mrs. Bear 4 · 0⤊ 1⤋
Your logic is flawed. You added the word achieved. I did not see that word in your original phrase "past time is infinite". According to the definitions you list for past and infinite, the past is endless and has continuously occurred. Using your logic you actually prove that there was no beginning.
2007-08-02 16:28:28 · answer #5 · answered by marson80 2 · 0⤊ 0⤋
The key to understand anything to do with time is that it doesn't actually exist. It is a man made concept to explain this linear plane of existence, but in true reality of the spiritual there is only here and now.
2007-08-02 16:23:58 · answer #6 · answered by nikola333 6 · 2⤊ 0⤋
The entire concept of an omnipotent creator being lacks logic. There are no finite beginnings nor a finite end to anything. Dualism is illogical.
_()_
2007-08-02 16:23:01 · answer #7 · answered by vinslave 7 · 0⤊ 0⤋
God was made up by mankind to explain the unexplainable. Can you refute that?
2007-08-02 16:22:56 · answer #8 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋
time is an illusion created by the mind...all there is is now. The rest of "time" is in the mind.
~ Eric Putkonen
2007-08-02 16:28:38 · answer #9 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋
Just because we cannot refute it, does not make it true.
2007-08-02 16:21:55 · answer #10 · answered by Lisa 3 · 0⤊ 0⤋