Dawkins vs. McGrath - two Jedi Masters battling it out?

Question

Reminds me of the fight between Obi Wan and Anakin.

http://ncregister.com/site/article/3287/

Catholic magazine could be the words of a Jedi chronicler.

Answer 1

Thanks for the site. I have seen atheists do this... not all mind you, but there is a small circle that tend to be like:

"It’s almost as if there’s a new dogma of the infallibility of Richard Dawkins in certain circles and I find that bizarre."

I'd have to say I find it bizarre too. They don't talk about his scientific research, but his views on religion... which seems rather empty when they say Science doesn't prove a deity exists. It doesn't prove one doesn't exist either. McGrath made a good point on scientific research, new things come up all the time and most scientists will say... "well, by what we have observed we can say that it could be *this*, but until we have more information we can't give a full report on it" (Dark Matter comes to mind here... an interesting subject, imo) But, it seems that the biggest contribution Dawkins has made is giving some atheists ammo to argue with people who believe in a deity/deities. I wouldn't call him a scientist based on that. You don't see any of the ones here talking about his book The Selfish Gene which brought about the study of "meme's" and memetics. What's rather amusing is they call him "Darwins Rottweiler"... but I don't recall Darwin approaching the idea of a Deity in his own writings. Actually, I feel Darwin avoided that and stuck with his scientific research. I've also seen others critique Dawkins, some after interviews with the man. One thing I found to be quite interesting was when Chopra said that he wasn't quite sure he understood how someone can look for a non-physical being in the physical world, not find it and then say "well, it can't exist". I thought this was a good point, as science deals with our physical world, not things outside of it. So science can't even approach the idea of deity based on that.... unless these people are willing to say Metaphysics and Parapsychology are legit sciences. But I know they won't do that. lol They will call them pseudo-sciences and say they aren't REAL Sciences.... sounds a lot like the Christians saying "Oh, He's not a TRUE Christian" lol

Answer 2

From what I've seen of Dawkins, he is a very bright fellow.
From what I've seen of McGrath, he is... not.

I've only seen some of their claims and have never read any of their works, so I will not declare the infallibility of Dawkins.

I like robin's response, but it is important to note that many feel scientific knowledge, i.e. perceptions that can be measured and studied, is the only sort of knowledge.

I am willing to admit that I might believe in a deity if I had a personal experience, but strong emotions won't do the trick. Furthermore, a deity appearing to me does not automatically tell me what sort of deity it is. At best, I'd come to believe that there is something more, but all of my other views would remain the same until proven otherwise. There are some atheists who would completely reject personal experience as proof on the grounds of potential mental instability, drowsiness, drugs, etc, but I question any approach to reality that questions its own perceptions.

Answer 3

in a catholic magazine? how does that fit your analogy?

i had assumed from your question that dawkins was also interviewed. does the interviewer ever ask mcgrath for an example of a time when the proposition that god did it ever helped to solve a problem in science? i think dawkins would maintain as i do that this has never happened, and i would also think that a historian of science ought to be aware of that problem. but no they're too busy tut tutting about how darned impolite dawkins is. how tedious.

Answer 4

Very interesting interview. I have to admit I've never heard of either Mr. Dawkins or Mr. McGrath. Now I have! Sounds like they're both at the top of their game.

It's funny I read this, because just this evening I was wondering if there were many cases of atheists becoming Christians. Now, I know of one! Thank you.

Answer 5

Here's a video of them going head to head:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6474278760369344626

McGrath is no Jedi Master. His arguments are fluffy.