Do you agree that to be 'anti zionist' is to be 'anti semitic'?

Question

In the UK, many, many people, especially on the Left, swear earnestly that they 'love jews but hate Israel'. I think this is rubbish frankly.

If you are anti zionist, then you are denying the right of the Jews to their homeland, while at the same time not challenging the right of any other country on this planet to exist. If this isn't anti semitic, then what the hell is?

PLEASE NOTE: I'm not saying that to challenge Israeli policy or practice is anti semitic. I don't believe it is at all, IF you are well informed and know the facts.

203: IF you read my question, you'll note I stated that it is NOT anti semitic to criticise Israel!

My point is that to be totally against the right of Israel to even exist IS anti semitic - because no other country on this planet gets condemned like this. Even those that are non democratic and far less ethical than Israel.

JIM SMITH: but you are stating incorrect facts! Please see my other question re Muslim 'tolerance' for Jews. Where are you getting your info? It's totally wrong.

DUNCAN: good points!

CLIVE: allow me to clarify yet again. I am NOT saying people must not criticise Israel. I am saying that to challenge Israel's very right to exist cannot be fair. And by the way, I DO believe that the Palestinians need their own state.

TO CLARIFY FOR THE LAST TIME:

I'm suggesting:

Criticising Israel and holding her to the same moral standards as all other nations = NOT ANTI SEMITIC

Stating that Israel has no right to even exist, and holding her to a higher moral standard than other nations = ANTI SEMITIC AND BLOODY UNFAIR!

NOMIMI: Actually, 'girl', I'm afraid it's you who's got it wrong. And you have totally failed to actually READ MY QUESTION. I didn't say Israel was perfect. But for you to make these assertions about an entire nation - with no evidence to support it - is really silly. Either back up your 'facts' or kindly don't answer any of my questions in future.

Answer 1

I would say that "it depends" though, by and large, most "anti Zionism" is "anti semitic".

The best way to tell is to use Sharansky's "3 D"' principle.

Demonization, Double Standards, Delegitimization

Here's a recent article by him.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?apage=1&cid=1170359835461&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Another way to tell if it is anti semitic is if "Zionist" is used interchangeably with "Jew" and if, when, substituting Zionist for Jew, it sounds indistinguishable from anti semitic canards.

Answer 2

Yes and no. In theory, it is completely possibly to distinguish between the two for purposes of criticism. Because of this, one can in theory be anti-Zionist while not anti-Semitic. However, in practice I find it is rare to find them separate. Many people with a cool head may be able to keep things in perspective, but in the heat of a passionate debate often times some statements about Jews begin to slip out. Personally I don't even understand this concept of anti-Zionism. What other country in the world still has to fight for the right to exists after it has done so for 60 years? Why does anyone, and certainly anyone unattached to the conflict, have the right to denounce Israel that right? To put things into perspective, Israel's creation was agreed upon by the international community, while the US for example was founded on conquest and racism. Why isn't Patriotism called into question? Can I say I'm an anti-Patriot because I'm against sticking Native Americans on reservations to die in the desert, or against America's practice of throwing tons of African Americans into jail? America is certainly not the only example, which begs the question: what is so special about Israel? The answer very well may be that's it's fun and easy to hate the Jews, but maybe not.

Answer 3

It seems Duncan is so far the only one who has bothered to actually read your question!

I agree that there is nothing anti semitic about criticising Israel, if the person is being fair. All countries make mistakes and get things wrong and sometimes behave badly. Israel should not be held to a higher moral standard than other nations but it seems she often is.

To deny the actual right of Israel to exist... Yes, now I think about it I see what you mean. People don't deny any other country in the same way, so in that respect, I can see how this could be seen as anti semitism.

But a lot of the time, especially in the UK, I think people are ignorant, as opposed to actually anti semitic. They have swallowed the Arab propoganda totally and they don't even realise that the original palestinians were jews and that this was always jewish land.

Answer 4

Firstly: NOMIMI: what utter rubbish you speak! I think you'll find there are plenty of 'real Jews' living in Israel.

Anyone who understands anything about Judaism knows that the concept of the Jewish spiritual, religious and historical homeland is an important and precious one.

To say that Israel has no right to exist IS anti semitic: you wouldn't say it about any other country, so why the Jewish state?

That's what LondonMinx is getting at, but sadly several people have either deliberately misunderstood her so they can just rant and rave about the Palestinians, or people have genuinely misunderstood. I find the latter a tad hard to believe given that the questioner has now clarified this question about five times!

There are TWENTY-TWO Muslim countries.

How can anyone with any sense of decency seek to deny us the one tiny bit of land that we have valued and dreamed of for so long? And where we as Jews have had a continuous presence for over three thousand years!

Answer 5

Well seems a lot of People here are confused including the Asker, so let's just get some definitions in place before we put back things into their right place.

Zionism is a political movement
Judaism is a religion
Israeli is a nationality
Semitic is an ethnicity

So obviously they are differnt things.

So opposing a Political movement (Zionism) is part of any democratic process, nothing wrong with that.

Opposing the policies of the government of Israel and expressing my disgust about what every body coincides are crimes against humanity is a duty.

Judaism as a religion should be respected. Unless extremist members of this religion exceed their limits and start fantasizing about imaginary promises and start designating chosen people at the expense of others... its like Smoking... you have the right to smoke as long as you stay away from me.

Semitism is an ethnicity... no one has the choice of his ethnicity... so discriminating against someone because he is semite (or not, Believing that being semite is superior or inferior to others) is racism and unacceptable. And by the way Semites is not only the Jewish people, Arabs are also of the same race.

So the intentional mixing up between the concepts is just an attempt to silence any political opposition on the pretext that it is Blasphemy or racism... while giving the policies of their government the sanctity and respect of a religion and the world of God. What a farce!!!

See where I'm coming from... They are just emotionally blackmailing humanity.

Answer 6

what's a Jew besides? i think of the themes are confusion between ethnicity and faith. the religion is Judaism. The practicers of Judaism would properly be every person. initially the way I comprehend is they have been followers of Abraham called Hebrews. in basic terms a million of their tribe replaced into Juda. there replaced into Ham, Shem and Japth(something) stepped off the boat with Noah. Hamites, Shemites and (yet another). those are ethnic communities. pronounced between many Jewish non secular are additionally Ethiopians. Zionism is the "mandate" that Jewish human beings return after the Babylonian seize, to the land that God gave them. It replaced into never an wisdom, a minimum of no longer mine, that no person else would desire to stay there. The Romans somewhat did.

Answer 7

Here's the situation as I see it. Israel is a religious state but is separate from Judaism. I have a great deal of respect for the Jewish people, but not much for Israel. Many of the actions Israel has taken are barbaric and have been called out by Human Rights Watch. That said, I believe that the Palestinians have done some just as horrible things. To be anti-zionist is not to be anti-jew. Any religious extremism is dangerous and no one has the right to take land merely because an ancient book gave them the green light.

Answer 8

Criticising Israel is not anti-Semitic, however, singling out Israel for vilification and international sanction - out of proportion to any other party in the Middle East - is anti-Semitic

Answer 9

I disagree with you entirely.

It is quite easy to seperate the political actions of Israel from the Jewish faith.

Those who say the two come hand in hand and that it is anti semitic to criticise Israel, in my opinion, do so in an attempt to supress criticism, for their own gain and to further their own cause.

[your question appears to or comes very close to contradicting itself, you say, you think it's rubbish (and imply anti semitic) that you can love jews but hate israel but then say it's ok to challenge israel and not be anti semitic]

Answer 10

Here is the deal, i am Jewish and i know you think i am lying, but there are hispanic jews. I personally am not a big supporter of israel myself because there policy is bad. I have had this argument before with my parents. After the Holocaust, Jewish people needed a place to call there homeland and the british promised them one. They choose Israel which was their first mistake. Israel is holy to Christians, Druzes, and Muslims a like. They took over the capitol with the intent of creating Jewish state. They wanted no one else in their capitol so they kicked the muslims out. Nothing like getting kicked out of their homeland, right? They had there wars and it hasn't been recently that I have started disagreeing with Israel. Israelis tend to be racist against muslims, yet us jews forget people once hated us, so we think its ok. There is no effort on israels part to help the muslims. The average israeli make 20,000 dollars a year and they average muslim or palestinian makes 2000 a year. Of course there upset and they have every right to be. Israel keeps them in a bad state. This comes back and haunts the whole world. As we know, the muslim world is divided. The different sects hate each other, but they can unite on one thing. Hating Israel and anyone who supports them. They all gang up and start hating the west. I am a jew and am sympathetic for a Jewish homeland. I think after the holocaust, they needed to get out of Europe. I don't know where the jewish people should have gone, but kicking people out is never right. They just went all wrong about setting up a government. Before zionists showed, muslims preched religous tollerance and jews lived there happy. Now, a majority of muslims have turned into hateful people. Its fair to say that you can owe it all to kicking palestinians out of the country. Thats my two cents.

Too answer your question, anti zionist is not anti semetic because i feel the same way and i am jewis