Sorry but let's face it.........[read more]?

Question

I've heard many of you talk a big talk but I know for a fact that most of the stuff that you talk about will never happen. Unless the right and the left come up with a compromise nothing will ever happen. You can all stop as many immigration bills as you can but just so you know about 4,500 new illegals come here every day. No side is going to completely win. You can't deport them all sorry but not only is that impossible but it isn't a favorable idea to most American. I hear all of you complain about illegal immigration every day but you rarely come up with a viable solution. So what do you say now" we'll just make sure illegals don't get jobs but getting tougher on the people that hire them " We'll I'm fine with that as long as we legalize the illegals that have jobs and speak English. Yes I know you all hate the part but let's be realistic I know for a fact that AT LEAST 1/2 of the country favoring giving them some sort of legalization ..Heck even some antis in private have told me that they favor giving them amnesty (just not to their extended families) Well why did the immigration bill fail? Because while a lot of Americans want legalization they differ on the details. Heck I agree with you on a few things, you'll get your walls, you'll get English as the official language of the US but frankly that's about as much as you'll get. So what do you think about the plan I proposed?

Jimmy J here ya go

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/fuseaction/viewItem/itemID/16148

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/fuseaction/viewItem/itemID/16082

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/fuseaction/viewItem/itemID/15747

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/fuseaction/viewItem/itemID/14977

http://www.pollster.com/blogs/poll_cbs_news_immigration.php

http://www.pollster.com/blogs/poll_abcpost_immigration.php

http://www.pollster.com/blogs/poll_cbstimes_08_immigration.php

http://www.topix.net/forum/topstories/TLC3F6IR2SFRIL0PF

http://www.galluppoll.com/content/default.aspx?ci=26875

http://www.galluppoll.com/content/?ci=27307

http://www.fogcityjournal.com/news_in_brief/bcn_immigration_poll_070627.shtml

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1856792/posts

http://www.uclanews.ucla.edu/page.asp?RelNum=8057

http://www.newmediajournal.us/staff/williams/06272007.htm

http://kudlowsmoneypolitics.blogspot.com/2007/05/immigration-polls.html

how is it fair to legal immigrants?
my parents think it's very fair and they came here legally
to be honest they have more sympathy for illegals than most of you do

personally I'm all for Obama's paln on immigration
you can read it if you wish
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/immigration_and_the_border/

oh wow a personal attack how unique
polls are polls are polls sweetheart
oh wait let me guess? my polls are a bunch of lies huh?
LMAO

um USA1 you do know that one of your polls is a year old . The oldest poll I showed was taken at the end of last April. I have more than 10 you have 4 old polls. who's is more accurate:?

Answer 1

There's almost nothing us realistic people can do to change the minds of the cons=anti-illegals. I know you and lots of other people try to convince these anti-illegals how it's going to be for now on in the US and that the status quo is not acceptable. Something needs to be done, not deportation, something that will get illegal immigrants out of the shadows, become legal, and do what they need to do; pay taxes, pay for whatever they want/need/have to pay for.

But all I know is that people are mad or frustrated that they even live here, but all I can say, honestly, is that they will have to DEAL WITH IT (and not I'm not talking about illegal murderers, rapist, etc, these real criminals need to be gone).

"Bryan"-- Thank you, I'm glad my opinion amuses you. They aren't facts that's for sure (except the part where illegals won't be deported) but I guess you are one of those people that will have to deal with it because that's about the only way it would work out. We can't deport, enforcing the laws won't happen, so what's left? Legalizing the good ones, secure the border, have them learn English, etc.
Your immigration plan won't work at all. And I don't know what your talking about when you said . . ."Additionally if you think that only conservatives are anti-illegal you are really lost." I'm not lost because I know that's not the case. And I did not mention anything about "conservatives."

Answer 2

While I won't dispute that you make some good points, I disagree with some of what you have said. You state that we cannot deport all illegals. This is a myth. It would be a logistical nightmare, but it could be accomplished. We can also stem the flow by making it impossible for them to find legitmate work and housing. If they cannot find jobs it would be useless for them to cross the border in the first place. We can also stem more of the flow by changing the law which allows that any child born in the United States immediately becomes a citizen. I am not against providing reform which allows a more expedient path to citizenship, but they must wait their turn behind those who faithfully followed the law and their requests to become citizens must originate from within their country of origin. The current proposals are another amnesty no matter how you look at it and no matter what you choose to believe the majority of Americans are against this. Rewarding violations of the law only results in more of the same type of behavior. If you want to know my plan I will list the highlights below.

1) All requests for citizenship must originate from the country of origin. In order to facilitate this illegals should be allowed to leave via any border crossing without punishment for a given period of time.
2) Employers who hire illegals should be charged with felony charges which carry mandatory prison sentences. No probation and no country club prisons.
3) Landlords who provide housing should be considered the same as employers listed above. They are aiding and abetting a criminal act.
4) Illegals who do not return to their country of origin should be rounded up and deported on a first offense. A second offense should involve mandatory jail time followed by deportation at the end of the prescribed sentence. A third offense would be considered a felony charge with a mandatory 10 years sentence followed by deportation. Fourth offense should be considered the same as 3 strikes followed by a life sentence.
5) While we cannot deny health care to illegals in general, it should be required by law that proper identification be displayed upon receiving service. It should be required of medical establishments that when documentation cannot be provided that they immediately report this to proper legal authorities for action.
5) The fence should be scrapped. It is a useless feelgood idea which will never work in actual practice. This is just a means for Congress to appear as though are doing something.
6) English should be the language of government and should be used when conducting any kind of business with any level of government (local, state and federal). Now I don't care what language you choose to speak in your home, or with your friends and private business owners can do business in whatever language they choose.

ricmon87: Opinions like yours amuse me. You hold the belief that the American people are just going to have to accept what the illegals and their supporters want. It is obvious that you have not been paying attention to what is going on around you. The American people accepted a plan like this once before and the problem grew worse as a result. They are not going to accept another one. Additionally if you think that only conservatives are anti-illegal you are really lost.

Ricmon87: Really that is not what you meant? Then perhaps you would explain the statement. "There's almost nothing us realistic people can do to change the minds of the cons=anti-illegals" because it certainly looks like that is what you are saying to me, but I will admit that I might have misinterpreted your meaning. As for the other part. It is your belief that we cannot deport the illegals. Indeed we can deport them if we choose to do so. If you want to say that you do not believe it is practical that is a different matter, but it is certainly not impossible. Pray tell what exactly in my plan would not work? I mean I am open to considering different opinions, but it requires more than general statements which lack supporting facts for why.


you cant just say your legal now because you have a job and speak english...that is unfair to the legal immagrants that took all the legal steps at becoming US citizens...why should the illegal ones get a free pass because some @ssh0le hired a illegal immagrant...and 1/2 of the country doesn't favor ANYTHING let alone immagrate reform bills...so dont feed me that bull...Harsher punishment and deportation of illegals is the only safe way to handle this...if you want in be legal about it.

The reason the immigration bill failed was because it was too big. Trying to make massive compromises do not work. The best way to address the issue would be to pass a token border security bill. I say token because you are not going to stop the flow of immigrants significantly. Increased security will just cause changes in the patterns of migration. This will appease most on the right. Then you pass a bill dealing with legalization. Make it a tough, but fair path to legalization. A fine, paying back taxes, etc... This will be acceptable to most on the left and everyone in the center and some on the right. Bush would sign both and we have shelved the immigration issue for another 20 years.

That is truly brilliant, especially the part where you say that both sides of congress have to agree. There are just as many liberals as there are conservatives and most of them have to agree on the same thing. So I know that the liberals and moderates will not allow mass deportations and the conservatives will not allow amnesty? What is the soultion, you ask? In the middle.

The solution is to allow some to get on the path to citizenship but if they are not criminals and they eventually learn english(with in 5 years lets say). The criminals(the ones that commit crimes other then lack of documentation) need to be deported. The path should be relatively short(5 years from the beginning to when one receives citizenship).

It should also be harder to forge documents so there isnt a new 20 million in 10 years from now.

I didnt include border security because that is already under way.

Answer 3

if we're talking about helping america in the long run (both in general and economically), then what we SHOULD be trying to do is help make mexico a better country, stable enough so it can provide it's OWN people with jobs.

giving complete forgiveness to millions of illegals is unfair to the people that come here legally. however, i admit it would be more of a nightmare to try to capture each and every person here that shouldn't be. those people that came here illegally should have to pay fines (they are criminals; people don't endorse giving murderers complete amnesty, do they? it's stupid when people say these illegals fall short of a criminal. how can you say everyone who has come here so far illlegally is ok legally (by the amnesty) and say everyone who comes after a certain point is not?) i believe certain rules should be put forth (and enforced) to root out the people who are living illegally (trying to escape any fines). we also need to put up a fence.

there's your viable solution. that's not the first one put forth either. the reason none are ever executed is because we lack the funds, due to the deep debt this stupid war has put us in.

Answer 4

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Answer 5

The reason the immigration bill failed was because it was too big. Trying to make massive compromises do not work. The best way to address the issue would be to pass a token border security bill. I say token because you are not going to stop the flow of immigrants significantly. Increased security will just cause changes in the patterns of migration. This will appease most on the right. Then you pass a bill dealing with legalization. Make it a tough, but fair path to legalization. A fine, paying back taxes, etc... This will be acceptable to most on the left and everyone in the center and some on the right. Bush would sign both and we have shelved the immigration issue for another 20 years.

Answer 6

yeah i agree the left and the right have to come to a compromise in order for a solution to be found and i do agree that a solution wont be had that says just ship them all back or they just need to move .. so we have to find a way that will fit both side legally first off since the issue is about they are "illegal" but also it has to be reasonable and logical and realistic on both sides .... but giving them permission to just become legal like that will have mass amounts of problems itself but also a military action in deporting them all and rounding them up will have a very bad effect at the same time so we all need to work on making a solution "Together"

Answer 7

While I won't dispute that you make some good points, I disagree with some of what you have said. You state that we cannot deport all illegals. This is a myth. It would be a logistical nightmare, but it could be accomplished. We can also stem the flow by making it impossible for them to find legitmate work and housing. If they cannot find jobs it would be useless for them to cross the border in the first place. We can also stem more of the flow by changing the law which allows that any child born in the United States immediately becomes a citizen. I am not against providing reform which allows a more expedient path to citizenship, but they must wait their turn behind those who faithfully followed the law and their requests to become citizens must originate from within their country of origin. The current proposals are another amnesty no matter how you look at it and no matter what you choose to believe the majority of Americans are against this. Rewarding violations of the law only results in more of the same type of behavior. If you want to know my plan I will list the highlights below.

1) All requests for citizenship must originate from the country of origin. In order to facilitate this illegals should be allowed to leave via any border crossing without punishment for a given period of time.
2) Employers who hire illegals should be charged with felony charges which carry mandatory prison sentences. No probation and no country club prisons.
3) Landlords who provide housing should be considered the same as employers listed above. They are aiding and abetting a criminal act.
4) Illegals who do not return to their country of origin should be rounded up and deported on a first offense. A second offense should involve mandatory jail time followed by deportation at the end of the prescribed sentence. A third offense would be considered a felony charge with a mandatory 10 years sentence followed by deportation. Fourth offense should be considered the same as 3 strikes followed by a life sentence.
5) While we cannot deny health care to illegals in general, it should be required by law that proper identification be displayed upon receiving service. It should be required of medical establishments that when documentation cannot be provided that they immediately report this to proper legal authorities for action.
5) The fence should be scrapped. It is a useless feelgood idea which will never work in actual practice. This is just a means for Congress to appear as though are doing something.
6) English should be the language of government and should be used when conducting any kind of business with any level of government (local, state and federal). Now I don't care what language you choose to speak in your home, or with your friends and private business owners can do business in whatever language they choose.

ricmon87: Opinions like yours amuse me. You hold the belief that the American people are just going to have to accept what the illegals and their supporters want. It is obvious that you have not been paying attention to what is going on around you. The American people accepted a plan like this once before and the problem grew worse as a result. They are not going to accept another one. Additionally if you think that only conservatives are anti-illegal you are really lost.

Ricmon87: Really that is not what you meant? Then perhaps you would explain the statement. "There's almost nothing us realistic people can do to change the minds of the cons=anti-illegals" because it certainly looks like that is what you are saying to me, but I will admit that I might have misinterpreted your meaning. As for the other part. It is your belief that we cannot deport the illegals. Indeed we can deport them if we choose to do so. If you want to say that you do not believe it is practical that is a different matter, but it is certainly not impossible. Pray tell what exactly in my plan would not work? I mean I am open to considering different opinions, but it requires more than general statements which lack supporting facts for why.

Answer 8

That is truly brilliant, especially the part where you say that both sides of congress have to agree. There are just as many liberals as there are conservatives and most of them have to agree on the same thing. So I know that the liberals and moderates will not allow mass deportations and the conservatives will not allow amnesty? What is the soultion, you ask? In the middle.

The solution is to allow some to get on the path to citizenship but if they are not criminals and they eventually learn english(with in 5 years lets say). The criminals(the ones that commit crimes other then lack of documentation) need to be deported. The path should be relatively short(5 years from the beginning to when one receives citizenship).

It should also be harder to forge documents so there isnt a new 20 million in 10 years from now.

I didnt include border security because that is already under way

Answer 9

I don't think that you have a strong basis for claiming that most Americans don't favor the idea of deporting the illegals.
That is laughable to say that ½ of the country want to reward these criminals with citizenship - I think that the last defeat in Congress proves that wrong.

Just be grateful that our government does not treat illegals the way the Mexican government does to Guatemalans who cross over on their southern border.

Answer 10

you cant just say your legal now because you have a job and speak english...that is unfair to the legal immagrants that took all the legal steps at becoming US citizens...why should the illegal ones get a free pass because some @ssh0le hired a illegal immagrant...and 1/2 of the country doesn't favor ANYTHING let alone immagrate reform bills...so dont feed me that bull...Harsher punishment and deportation of illegals is the only safe way to handle this...if you want in be legal about it.