Does the catholic church use circular reasoning?

Question

Whenever I have a friendly discussion with a Catholic about what legitimizes their church, they always say that their church leaders were decendents from the leadership of Peter. Then when I ask where did they get this information from they give me quotes from some highly regarded church Pope or ancient leader. So basically they are legit because a Catholic person many many centuries ago said that Catholicism is legit? Seems confusing.

Now ultimately the whole basis of the church's foundation is the biblical passage where Peter calls Jesus the Christ and Jesus said upon this rock I will build my church. Now if this is a misinterpretation and Christ was refering to Peter's faith and not Peter himself, then doesnt that just send the Catholic churchs legitimacy up on smoke? I mean all of the claims of this massive empire all comes down to a one verse interpretation. Even if the bible showed one apostle praying through Mary I would convert this instant?

Answer 1

But where did your interpretation of Jesus referring to Peter's FAITH instead of Peter himself come from?

Some protestant leader many centuries ago. So you're not in any better situation than a Catholic is.

You need to learn Greek and Aramaic, though. If Jesus was speaking in Greek (as the oldest text of this Gospel that exists is written in), He would have said, "You are Peter (petros, male form, indicating Simon's nickname, like "Rocky") and upon this rock (petra, female form, indicating a stone), I shall build this Church," which might give credence to the claim that Jesus isn't speaking about Peter himself, but Peter's statement of faith.

However, Jesus didn't speak Greek to Peter. I supposed He could have, but Peter wouldn't have understood him. Peter and the author of this text, Matthew (i.e., Levi the Tax Collector), spoke Aramaic.

In Aramaic, there is no difference between the word for Rock as in a name for a man and a rock as in a stone on the ground. So a more literal translation is, "You are The Rock and on this Rock I will build my Church." Suddenly, there isn't a difference between Peter the man and whatever it is that Jesus is building His church upon. Furthermore, other passages of Scripture support the idea that Peter was the leader of all the Apostles and thus the leader of the Church. For example, even though John reached Jesus' tomb first, he gave Peter the courtesy of waiting and allowed Peter to go in first. Might seem odd in our culture that isn't used to such social hierarchy, but it was significant to them. Another example is how Peter preached at Pentecost. There are others as well. Peter clearly takes precedence over the other apostles, plus there is a clear and unbroken apostolic succession from Peter all the way to Benedict XVI today.

In other words, there is a lot more evidence to back up the Catholic interpretation of this passage than there is to support the Protestant assumption...made by people who openly objected to the idea of listening to any successor of Peter's. Kinda convenient of them to reinterpret this bit, wasn't it?

Answer 2

>>>Now if this is a misinterpretation and Christ was refering to Peter's faith and not Peter himself, then doesnt that just send the Catholic churchs legitimacy up on smoke?<<<

Yes it would -- but the problem with that argument is that Christ clearly was not referring to anyone or anything else except Peter himself.

Christ spoke to the disciples in Aramaic, the common language in ancient Palestine at the time. In the Aramaic, Christ uses the name Kepha -- which in that language, means rock.

Peter is the English derivative of Petros, which in Greek (the language into which the Gospels would be translated in early Christian history) also means rock.

Christ clearly was referring to Peter when He spoke of the rock on which He would build the Church. It's telling that non-Catholics have to play some serious word games with the text in order to detract from that truth.

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Answer 3

The Holy Spirit, the divine Counselor sent by the Father and the Son, unites sacred Scripture, sacred Tradition, and the Church’s Magisterium by His ceaseless action in the Church: the Holy Spirit inspires Scripture, animates or gives life to Tradition, and guarantees the Magisterium, protecting the Church from error in matters of faith and morals. All three are gifts from God to His people to ensure them divine guidance in communication of Jesus the Word throughout the ages. Without this work of the Holy Spirit in sacred Scripture, sacred Tradition, and the Church’s Magisterium, the Christian faithful would be thrown into divisive chaos—thousands of separate groups arguing for radically different interpretations of Christ’s Gospel. “It is clear, therefore, that sacred Tradition, sacred Scripture, and the teaching authority of the Church, in accord with God’s most wise design, are so linked and joined together that one cannot stand without the others, and that all together and each in its own way under the action of the Holy Spirit contribute effectively to the salvation of souls,” (Dei Verbum, no. 10).

Answer 4

People don't understand the Papacy, because they don't understand the Old Testament. Let my try to explain...In the Old Testament, The Davidic Kings would set up Prime Ministers (stewards) to execute their power for them. Such as in Isaiah 22:15, in which the "shedna" is the office of prime minister, who has the authority to arrest or pardon crimes. The King would also allow the Prime Minister to rule the Kingdom for them in their absence and such. In the New Testament, Jesus Christ, The King, gives St. Peter the office of Prime Minister, in order to rule the kingdom of God on earth (The Church), until Jesus returns. We can see this in Matthew 16:18. Jesus gives the keys of the Kingdom to Peter, in order for Peter (The Pope) to have full authority on behalf of the King, Jesus Christ.

Answer 5

Actually, the rock Jesus was referring to was Jesus himself. He was only held captive in death parts of 3 days before God resurrected him to a glorified life. Therefore, the gates of Hades could not hold him, and he and his teachings made an excellent foundation for the new congregation.

Answer 6

Was Peter really first pope? Lets take a look...

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/pope2.htm

Answer 7

Religion precludes that you have to use circular reasoning to justify its existance.

Answer 8

Don't hold your breath waiting got those claims to be proven biblically.

Answer 9

little bit more then that, look at the bible first, we will start with peter, ‘Blessed are you, Simon, son of Jonah: flesh and blood has not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say unto thee also, that you are Cephas, and on this rock will I build my Church; and the gates of hades shall not prevail against it, i shall give you the keys to heaven what ever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven what ever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven (binding and loosing were powers reserved for the high priest in judism) he was the first to preform miricles after jesus ascended into heaven, and as to mary, how about her having all the twelve tribes and the sun and moon bowing to her, in a parrall to jospehs dream he saw his brothers stars minus his, here is from rev "And a great portent appeared in heaven, a Woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; she was with child and she cried out in her pangs of birth, in anguish for delivery. . . . [S]he brought forth a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne. . . . Then the dragon was angry with the Woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus" (Rev. 12:1–2, 5, 17)." jesus even differed to her requst at cannia just like a davidic kind would to the his mother the queen ( normally the one who secured the throne for him) almost every time the narrative of 1 and 2 Kings introduces a new monarch in Judah, it mentions the king’s mother as well, showing the mother’s intimate involvement in her royal son’s reign. Similarly, the queen mother is listed among the members of the royal court whom king Jehoiachin surrendered to the king of Babylon in 2 Kings 24:12, also that is why catholics pray to her (in the sense of asking for her prayers) praying in this sense, is like if i asked you to pray for me, it would be a requst in the old engish, i pray sir would you do this for me "So Bathsheba went to King Solomon, to speak to him on behalf of Adonijah. And the king rose to meet her, and bowed down to her; then he sat on his throne and had a seat brought for the king’s mother; and she sat on his right. Then she said, ‘I have one small request to make of you; do not refuse me.’ And the king said to her, ‘Make your request, my mother; for I will not refuse you’" (1 Kgs. 2:19–20).
if jesus is supposed to be the fullfilment of the davidic line, sprang from the tree of jesse, then its only caring on this, as he himself said i did not come to destroy the law but to perfect it, but, for me personlay the bible verse that made me catholic, (i was baptist) was malichi 1:11 My name will be great among the nations, from where the sun rises to where it sets. In every place incense and pure offerings will be brought to me, because my name will be great among the nations," says the LORD Almighty. in that verse i saw that all over the world a pure sacrifice would be offered always, and at all time, i had a friend tell me that at any given moment during the day, even right now as you read this, somewere there is a mass being offered, and as he said to me "if jesus said it was his body and blood, who are we to dissagree" i had always viewed them as symbloic, didnt know anychurch viewed them otherwise, till i started looking into the catholic church more, i hope some of this helps you :)

Answer 10

All denominations of the christian religion use circular reasoning.It's second nature to them