Choice an illusion, no free will?

Question

free will

n
power of independent action and choice: the ability to act or make choices as a free and autonomous being and not solely as a result of compulsion or predestination


of your own free will without being forced by somebody or something else
Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.


Many people who answered my last question suggested that because I did a certain thing and I chose to do that thing that I have free will. But how can you be sure that choice is not an illusion? Just as when you let go of an object in the presence of the earth's gravity it will fall, could not all things act in the same way if we were smart enough to understand them. These laws, these actions that take place the same way under nearly the same exact circumstances give existence it's livable predictability. If you live around people you migh notice that they have their habits and predictabilities.

Answer 1

Everything is a product of preceding causes. You might say that everything we do is the only thing we COULD possibly do, given our causes.

rhsaunders had it right: given all that data, we could, theoretically, determine what would happen. That is obviously impossible, so we like to call our ignorance "free will."

If we were to really put this kind of thinking into effect, though, we would not be justified in imprisoning anyone, since criminals "had to" commit their crime. Instead, we pretend that, because we had options, we could have done differently.

Answer 2

What would it mean to have free will? There would have to be some moment where the world could go two ways, and the way it goes is: (1) not random, (2) not determined, (3) an expression of the choosers will. So, one freely willed agent in this situation makes a choice, another freely willed agent in the same situation makes a different choice. Why? Why, in a way that is not determined by anything else, and is not random, but is the true expression of the choosers will? Perhaps it's a result of their character or their desire? But why do they have that character or desire, and why is the other agent different? You can't say they choose to be as they are, that way lies infinite regression and no answer. You can't answer they were made that way, you just promote the question to the maker as a cause. You can't say that it's just the way they are, reducing freedom to randomness at the starting post. This is an old problem, with basically two solutions: (1) Magic, free will is a miraculous thing, outside the world of logical cause and effect. (2) Predestination, we're not free, (and there are actually some very nuanced and sympathetic versions of this). Sometimes you'll hear a third answer suggested, the quantum brain models of Penrose and Hameroff, but when pushed they say: "In each event the choice of state is selected, non-computably, to reflect some influence that is neither random nor completely deterministic, but due to hidden propensities embedded in fundamental space-time" (reference below). To my mind seeing free will as a tendency of space-time to bias quantum events is just randomness constrained by the properties of space-time, and not really free. Actually this idea of hard determinism is pretty widespread under the name of Metaphysical Naturalism, (start reading in wikipedia). And it has enormous implications, but that would be another question: what are the implications of being without free will?

Answer 3

You in essence have answered your own question.

You sighted gravity, and as a constant in earth you are correct the rock will behave exactly the same when dropped, it will fall. Move the rock to lets say Jupiter and it to will fall, out in space and it floats. Reason being is in all cases there is either an outside force acting on it to fall in the same way consistently or there is no outside force letting it do something that is very un-rock like, and that is float. None the less the rock behaves according preset laws that exist in it’s environ and is only able to disobey those laws when lets say you pick it up, but again once you let it go it goes back to doing its rock thing, 100% of the time, hence it is called the Law of Gravity.

Now on to humans and choice and why you have choice; the first is perhaps simply the most obvious and that is you can replicate the exact same set of circumstance on two completely different people and they can make either a choice that is in glaring opposition to the choice the other made, or the two choices can agree. So it does not then become a law as the possibility does exist to do something contrary to what others might have choose, unlike the rock and its thud, it will always thud in the same circumstances. On that level, since the possibility exists it can not be law but choice.

Now onto the other point, it is in most cases safe to assume humans in large enjoy living, by that I mean you don’t simply lay around in your bed and die of starvation because of your apathy. Should you disagree you at least have cared enough up to this point not only to do that which supports your life but have also cared enough to interact with others via the internet and seek on some level interaction. Since this then is the case, no matter what the circumstances are, no matter the experience, you have choose to live to reach this point, in other words it has at least a semblance of value to you personally regardless of what you choose to believe.

So since it has value what allows some to determine that there is a calling that is of more value, eg: freedom, while yet others deem only there life of value? What causes the stranger on the beach to jump in and save someone from a shark attack while yet others stand by and simply say poor dolt? What causes you to proclaim atheist, and others Christianity, and what is defined as hate if there is not the opposite choice of love? Choice exists and it’s proof in the fact that even when all of my fiber tells me to turn and run the other way and live I go and pick the broken child up out of the wreckage so that the child might have a chance of life. Choice exists because your actions are not simply controlled by a law, not even you will respond the exact same way to the exact same circumstances, unlike the rock that thuds.

Answer 4

I agree with fireball 226,
you have your fate in your own hands. Sorry no excuse. Can't blame gravity, bad habits, stupidity, hate, .... for why you chose to do what you did. No one can force you to do anything you don't want to do. It is your free will.
There is always a consequence for everything we do. I know this is not what a lot of people want to hear, but that is the way it is. Take responsibility for your actions.
We will ALL someday stand before the throne of God.
The Word of God is clear, the wages for sin is death. Choose wisely. Seek the Lord while you can - once your time is up, it is too late. From the moment you die - you are in eternity. Eternity is a looooong time.
God bless you.

Answer 5

it's like your example of choosing to not ignore the law of gravity. Thats about how much choice you really have in some things. Other things you actually do have free will, such as chocolate or strawberry? Paper or plastic? There are laws that can't be ignored, call them divine laws or just call them natural laws. If you hurt others you hurt yourself. If you are angry, you hurt both yourself and others. If you are selfish, you stunt your mental growth. You can choose to ignore this and say it's your free will but as a whole person you will still stunt your growth.

Answer 6

Yes, everyone has their habits and many are very predictable, but that doesn't mean that it's not free will. All that means is that they make the same choices over and over again. Some peoples free will back fires though, once they do something so much, they can't NOT do it. For example, my husband does his "rounds" everynight making sure that all the doors and windows are locked. He HAS to do this in order to feel safe enough to sleep. His free will has become a habit.

Answer 7

We all have free will, and have the free will to give up our free will (which happens a lot). Then the human actually has the nerve to state "I have no free will." Well maybe not being able to do what ever it is you want without suffering the consequences voids free will, but in my book it certifies it. Only those who are slaves to themselves state "there is no free will" for how can a slave be free.
I say "love the consequences of your actions!"

Answer 8

The whole argument of free will falls flat when you consider that Christians purport we all have a choice to worship God, or not. But if we don't -- we're punished. Which essentially means free will is just an illusion because there is a wrong and right answer based on their theology - and the person who chooses the wrong answer allegedly gets sent to hell for eternity. That sounds like force to me - or rather - coercion.

Answer 9

Technically, there is no such thing as free will: if you knew all the sensory inputs that a person had received since birth, you could use physics to calculate what the person would do in a particular situation. But that is of course impossible, and "free will" is a useful model for the way people actually behave.

Answer 10

Choose your chains friend. There is free will, but that doesn't mean there aren't Consequences.