LDS/Mormons: If I read and pray about the Book of Abraham, will you watch and think about this video?

Question

It is a scholarly look at the Book of Abraham and its origins, as well as the means by which it was produced. The video is 56:31 long.

I figure it will take me an hour and a half (roughly) to thoroughly read the entire Book of Abraham with sincerity, making sure not to skim over any passages, since they may be important.

If I am willing to do this and pray about it to find out if it is true, would you be willing to watch this video and think about it with a logical mind to find out if it is true?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hcyzkd_m6KE

Bubblewrap:

I have already read the BoM cover-to-cover at least 3 times. I'd be happy to do it again, if you'd like.

Mormon_4_Jesus: "We are told" by whom that Joseph Smith had 5 scrolls, or that one of them was over 10 feet long? Because Joseph, who undoubtedly spent the most time with them, said that there were two scrolls: one written by the hand of Joseph, and one written by the hand of Abraham. He also said that the first chapter of Abraham immediately followed the facsimile 1... which has also been proven to be inaccurately interpreted, by the way.

Answer 1

I have actually seen tid-bits of that documentary before, but never the whole thing at once. While it is somewhat one-sided, I am glad that it at least brought up the LDS apologist side. I would have liked more evaluation on the "other papyri" theory, but I am pretty confident with the evidence given that the papyri that were found were indeed the same ones Joseph Smith used, as was the consensus in the Church until the new translations came out.

I am of the school of thought that not everything can be taken literally. Joseph may have been absolutely convinced that what he produced was an actual translation, when in reality it may have been an inspiration for another work previously written by Abraham but lost to the ages.

The other possibility is that Joseph Smith let his prophetic calling get the best of him, lost the spirit for a time, and published an erroneous work, getting caught in his guise. This theory, which is probably the most well-evidenced, still doesn't disprove Joseph Smith as a prophet of God. All it does is show that even the Prophet of God can be prideful, and that later leaders of the Church accidentally would have canonized a false book along with other true books. The Book of Abraham really only addresses a few obscure doctrines, many of which can also be drawn from other Standard Works, so the truth of the LDS Church neither stands nor falls with the Book of Abraham.

I am a big fan of Joseph Smith, because he shows how human frailties can play a role in the accomplishment of the work of God, and that as true as a religion can be, it is still prone to the errors of its members, for good or for bad. I would highly suggest reading "Joseph Smith, Rough Stone Rolling" by Richard (check first name) Bushman. It is a great portrayal of Smith's human side, where at the end, he comes out as neither hero nor villain. Bushman himself is a liberal LDS member.

Answer 2

There is no scandal. Joseph Smith had 5 scolls. Somewhere on one of them was the Book of Abraham. He translated the text and contributed them to a Museum for the world to scrutinize. Sounds pretty scandalous so far doesn't it? The Museum burned to the ground in the great Chicago fire. Of the 5 scrolls, 3 were completely destroyed. There were a total of 3 fragments found from 2 that remained. By the way, these scrolls were as long as a large room. Some scholars took the 3 fragments and from those fragments they decided what the rest of the text should have looked like. Even though their opinions went directly against the accounts of eye witnesses, they explained what the scrolls would have looked like. Now they say that because the pictures in the Book of Abraham aren't the same as what they EXPECTED the pictures to be, then it must be a fraud. See the problem here??? If there was a scandal it is on the side of the scholars, not the Mormons. You should really study both sides of this one.

Answer 3

from fairwiki:

>Dr. Hugh Nibley writes:

We are told that papyri were in beautiful condition when Joseph Smith got them, and that one of them when unrolled on the floor extended through two rooms of the Mansion House.[John Gee, "Research and Perspectives: Abraham in Ancient Egyptian Texts," Ensign (July 1992): 60–?.; John Gee, "Abracadabra, Isaac and Jacob (Review of The Use of Egyptian Magical Papyri to Authenticate the Book of Abraham: A Critical Review by Edward H. Ashment)," FARMS Review of Books 7/1 (1995): 19–84.} ]
Nothing like this has survived today. (Yale-trained Egyptologist) Dr. (John) Gee, believes that Joseph Smith originally had five papyrus scrolls.[Hugh W. Nibley, "Phase One," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 3:2 (Summer 1968): 101.] Of these five scrolls, only eleven fragments of two scrolls have survived. Dr. Gee estimates that the scroll containing Facsimile 1 may have been ten feet long[Gee, A Guide to the Joseph Smith Papyri, 12–13.] and that in all, Joseph may have had eight times as much papyri as what is currently extant.[John Gee, "Facsimile 3," lecture given at the FARMS Book of Abraham Conference (16 October 1999), personal notes of conference talks by Michael Ash; see also, John Gee, "The Ancient Owners of the Joseph Smith Papyri" (Provo: FARMS, 1999), 1] It is very likely that the papyri from which Joseph translated the Book of Abraham, has been lost.

In some ancient examples, Egyptian papyri contained more than one document. Some LDS scholars argue that the Book of Abraham material was appended to the end of the Book of Breathings text.[John Gee, "Eyewitness, Hearsay, and Physical Evidence of the Joseph Smith Papyri," The Disciple As Witness: Essays on Latter-day Saint History and Doctrine in Honor of Richard Lloyd Anderson, eds., Stephen D. Ricks, Donald W. Parry, and Andrew H. Hedges (Provo: FARMS, 2000), 192.] <

Answer 4

I've watched this video. I'm pretty sure most mormons will not, as per instructions from Salt Lake, but also, nobody likes their faith challenged, especially by outsiders.

I think the time and effort aimed at challenging the faithful is ordinarily a colossal waste of time and bandwidth, but my sole purpose here is to warn and alert the unconverted masses of the potential danger to their mind by entering dialog with them there missionaries.

So, they'll just let Jeff Lindsay look at it and rely on his attempt to discredit science and logic.

Answer 5

You obviously are trying to do something that none of our opressors have managed in nearly 200 years. You cannot disprove the truthfulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and you never will be able to. You are not open to the Holy Spirit to bear witness to you of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon and therefore will not feel or recognize His presence. We will all see who is right and who is wrong when Christ returns to the earth to reign once again.

Answer 6

Sure... I'll watch the video if you read the Book of Mormon cover to cover.
I have no problems in doing so. Afterwards we'll both give a detailed acount. I'll watch and you read and pray to God the Father in the name of Jesus Christ. Agree?
Also visit
www.the-book-of-mormon.com

Answer 7

You have already made up your mind about the book without even opening it. Your intentions are clear, you just want to fight. Contention is of the Devil.

Answer 8

I watched the video. I'll email you.

Answer 9

I have a few websites that will answer all of your questions.
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_Abraham.shtml
Here is one and also, look at parts 2 and 3
Another one is,
http://www.boap.org/
Check these out. These will answer all of your questions.

Answer 10

I'll try to remember to watch, don't know when.

gw