For those of you who cite the extraordinary odds against DNA assembling spontaneously to deny evolution...?

Question

I'd like you to consider this...

Lets say the odds are so ridiculously high (say a 1 in 10^100 chance) that even the most ardent evolutionist would admit there simply wasn't enough time since the beginning of the universe for DNA to happen by chance.

Now what if I say that the code for DNA exists not just at the atomic level, but also withing the very fabric of the universe itself at the quantum level, and it has been progressively ordering itself not just for the period our universe has existed, but over billions of expansions and contraction periods (in other words, somewhere along the lines of the number one billion raised to the power of one billion.)

Is THAT enough time for the random factor to do it's job?

I say it's only within THIS most recent expansion that DNA finally came together completely, and was able to get life as we know it going.

Large numbers only seem to make things impossible.

Does this answer the "incredibly unlikely odds" argument?

Answer 1

Ok well this is actually quite simple really. Because whether or not that is true, (which btw you have give me refrences before I can believe that) I also have to question, how do you know how long the universe has been in existance? And where did the dna strands come from? Just out of the blue? Randomly the universe created itself? And are you telling me that a item such as a cup, can create itself? It is a inanmate object, how can you tell me that the universe that has no intelligence can create something such as a dna strand, even if it is over a billion year time period? And I also have to ask this, if you threw letters together in a book, no matter how long it took, it would still be more IMPROBABLE for those letters to make a coherent book, than it is to believe in a God. I actually have read the oods. And I also have to bring up the fact, that the big bang theory is really out there also. The chances of 2 masses colliding in an infinite space is in the 1 to several hundred trillions! The belief that there is a being greater than ourselvse is SO much easier and so much more probable. The chances that God does not exist literally is in the minute. I'll write down my sources for this information.

And again, the dna strands are made of trillions of cells that if one was even the slightest bit misplaced it would not even be possible for us to exist. So really, the chances that randomness created something so intricate is like believing this cup next to me can sprout wings and give me a million dollars. I'm not even being sarcastic. Thats actually more likely to happen than the idea of yours. Give me sources, I ask questions, Where did you find this info? how can you know that the universe has been in existance for billions of years? How did the dna strands come into existance? No this does not answer the arguement, instead this opens up a million other arguements thus confusing me even further. Not really a good arguement. My sources are....

Answer 2

Too many humans can't rise above the limited observations of their surroundings. It can be hard to think in the scales of TIME and space manifest in the universe.

Unfortunately, the expanse of time and space is already difficult enough to get ones mind around -- now you're introducing the fairly recent concept of a "yo-yo" universe that multiplies those scales even further. It's not necessary. Besides, the repeatedly expanding/collapsing universe is just a hypothesis.

The fact is, given the entire surface of the earth and the abundance of primordial soup and the billion years it took for just the right factors to come together, abiogenesis is an entirely plausible theory.

Nobody has proof yet, so, I wouldn't stake my life on it. But, I like the progress we're making and hope it will lead us to some long-postponed answers.

Answer 3

Um, the answer for the "odds" argument is simply this:

Evolution is not a function of chance!

It has two halves: mutation and natural selection. Mutation IS random, but natural selection is not (in fact, it's pretty much the opposite of random), so that makes evolution not a random process, rendering all arguments of "odds" completely meaningless.

For anyone who thinks that evolution being 'half random' makes it totally random, I have an analogy:

I'm playing draw poker. I get dealt 573KK. What I'm dealt is random, and that symbolizes mutation. Now, the fact that I'm going to keep the pair of kings and send the other three cards away to draw--obviously that is NOT random, and that symbolizes natural selection. Of course, whether or not the three cards I draw help my hand anymore is going to be random as well, because it represents more mutation.

See? It's really not that hard to grasp the basic concept. Like the draw poker player, natural selection can 'see' (not through an intelligence, by through the fact that a harmful mutation will harm survivability (it's not a PERFECT analogy :P)) the 'weak cards,' and will continue discarding until something that 'betters the hand' comes up. Of course, the 'hand of life' wouldn't have a measly five cards in it, but again, the basic idea is there--it's a simple analogy, but it works.

Answer 4

No.

That's a huge what-if statement. The only time we're concerned about is the time after the chemicals first mix.

There is a pro that used a similar argument though. Can't recall the name. Think he just said that the fact that we're here asking the question means it happened, doesn't really matter the odds. But still those are huge odds... (last I read larger than what you posted...

Answer 5

"Everything, you see, that everyone believes, we believe BY FAITH." And these people wonder why they're called stupid. If the only way to defend your belief is to undermine the very possibility of knowledge, your beliefs are nonsense. Knowledge does not mean 100% certainty. As an example, take a sick person. They go to two doctors. One says they will be dead by morning, the other says they will not. The next day, one of the doctors is correct, the other isn't. Faith has nothing to do with it.

Answer 6

Interesting thought....

I haven't really had a problem with the odds, actually. I say that the code for higher animals developed rather rapidly once it got started and I'd say that it got started pretty easily because there were plenty of partial code in the lower life forms, all waiting to be shared in that famous tidal pool that gave birth to everything, and all of it became a ready supply of parts each ripe for combining and recombining.

The real answers aren't that far off in the the future in any case; so, just keep your shirt on. Chill...

There's nothing to fear when science is near,
.... LOL ...
and god and his folks can munch on my shorts.

[][][] r u randy? [][][]
.
Give up those thumbs for "Layman"... He's got it right.

Answer 7

Well, since the replicator most likely assembled itself by the function of natural selection, saving the good and working with the materials at hand, the word " spontaneous " is superfluous.

Answer 8

How does DNA live on its own? There is DNA in everything that has died before us and i don't see any life coming out of it. And what about male and female? Maybe a freak chance in one species , but we have millions of species that can reproduce. How can this happen?

Answer 9

not really, since your saying the universe has contracted presumably back to the point of the big bang which would be the size of one molecule or smaller where does DNA hide in that?

Answer 10

I see you're proposing a kind of infinite answers for the infinite question.

It may be random but we have the space and the time to see it happen.

Good logical thought.