Isn't it MY laws and MY schools too? (I pay taxes just like you)?

Question

I hear a lot of "keep your religion out of MY laws & MY schools".. they're mine too. I'm not standing here telling you that you have to believe what I believe. I just want the right to be able to say One nation under God & for kids to have the right to talk about God when they're asked by a teacher "what are your views on the war, abortion, abuse, etc".

Why is it that a teacher can say I'm gay & it changed my life!" & his/her job is protected, but if one says "I got saved & it changed my life!" they can be fired? (some of my best friends are gay, they also know that I'm a Christian & we talk about both sides of it without getting pissy).

Christians don't support cloning as a means of scientific research... if cloning was banned, is that Christianity's fault (I personally know non-Christians that also think cloning is wrong)?

Fanatics and unfairness are coming from both sides people. As for me and my house,we will serve the Lord.

To the person who says "bs" about getting fired for talking about religion?

http://greensboring.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=4105

and I'm not asking for religion to be mandatory in schools and in law, I'm just asking for it to be allowed.

I also don't understand where people are determining my age from. I was born in 1982, thanks.

gelfling: so if I say "under God" and someone's bothered by it I'm the one who's wrong? I don't see your logic, it's called freedom of speech.

and I never said anything about if it was supposed to be there, originally there or anything like that, just that everyone should have the right to say it without someone getting all upset. So your command for me to know the "facts" has no basis, I wasn't discussing the history of the PoA, just that it's stupid that people get upset that "under God" is in there. Why not just omit it or change it to whatever you wish if you don't want to say "under God"....

I appreciate your enthusiam, but telling me to know my facts when I'm just talking about opinion (which doesn't have to be ruled by facts) is a little much, don't you think?

Answer 1

I wonder why it is that our students are taught the THEORY of global warming, but we can't discuss God because they say religion is a theory as well. Kind of a double standard, don't ya think?

The separation of church and state initially came about to protect the church, not the state. The founders of our country wanted the church protected from interference from our government. Somehow this has all been turned around to keep the church out of government (aka schools). Many people do not understand this. Some politician (surprise!) changed it around to advance his own agenda.

Answer 2

They are everyone's schools, not specifically belonging to one group. Now, I completely support you and your children's rights to express their religious beliefs, but it is illegal for a state run organization to support any form of religious belief. Your children have the right to express their religious beliefs; the school cannot do so however. Other people’s children also have the right to not have a particular religion’s values and beliefs forced upon them by the school. Religious freedom means religious freedom for everyone. Pagan children have the same right to express their religious beliefs, and so do Hindu, Islamic, and any other religion.

The debate regarding the pledge of allegiance is not just about your children saying “under God,” it’s about other children not having to say it. Children in many schools are forced to recite the Pledge on a daily basis, so what about those who do not believe in the Christian God that was added to the pledge in 1952? Should they be forced to recite a pledge proposing allegiance to something they do not believe in? Our nation is not one nation under God, it is one nation that is free to believe and express any religious beliefs they wish to.

Like it or not, a teacher is an employee of the state. In the article you gave, not only did that teacher make religious comments, he also made links trying to connect evolution, Nazi Germany, and planned parenthood; which did not have a scientific nor historical significance, it was the teacher’s opinions regarding those things.

All of this being said, I fully support your right to believe as you will, and if it were you rights being imposed upon I would fully fight for them. However, we must also look at the whole picture, and everyone’s rights must be taken into account. In a state run organization such as a school, it because a fine line. All students have the right to express their religious beliefs, but also other students have the right to not have other people’s religious beliefs forced upon them. Forcing students to say a pledge which includes “under god,” forces the religious beliefs of other onto people who may not believe them. Would you want a teacher telling your children "I found the Goddess and my life is great because of it," or "I have Allah in my life, so my life is better than yours," I don't think you would.

Answer 3

Indeed, it is your country and your public schools as well. And that's why you, too, are protected by the establishment clause of the First Amendment in the Bill of Rights in the U.S. Constitution. Congratulations!
Now, if you don't like the establishment clause and you want to allow the use of the government to establish religion, you are free and entitled to to try to amend the constitution to alter or eliminate that constitutional protection. but as long as it's in there the Courts will continue to allow private citizens to practice their faith but not let government officials use their position of authority to promote their personal religion. This includes school teachers.

Being gay isn't a religion. Being black isn't a religion. Being either might offend people, but neither violates the Establishment Clause.

You are allowed to vote your conscience as a legislator. Christian legislators can, if there's a reason other than religion, vote anti-gay or anti-cloning and they can even be guided by their faith when they do so. That's always been the case. But when they pass laws that are thinly designed efforts to legislate their religion- such as requiring teaching of creationism- then the courts will strike it down.

Keeping the country from becoming a theocracy might seem like radical extremism to the religious fringe, but to the rest of us secularism has made sense for the past couple hundred years and continues being a great basis for government still.

Edit: "allowing" the government (and a teacher is part of that) to preach religion in the public classroom is still an infringement of the First Amendment even if the teacher doing so isn't required.

2d Edit- you can't link to a news story about a teacher using the bible as a science text to support your view that a teacher can be fired for mentioning he's been saved. Teaching your religion as scientific truth does violate the Establishment Clause. Mentioning you are a Christian does not. More honest examples would improve your argument.

Answer 4

You have an excellent point! Now I can only speak from my own personal point of view, and am not able to speak for any other.

My reasoning is simple. My problem is that christians in general preach that your religion is the one and only true way. And that Jesus Christ is the only true and only deity. And that following any other religion is bad and wrong. See my problem is that I don't believe that, and you have no right to tell me or my children that.

Your religion is NOT the only right and true religion. There are many other religions to chose from. And this is America. My children and I can follow any religion we want to. I am Wicca. I chose to be Wiccan and I will teach my children to be Wiccan until they are of an age to chose for themselves. I feel that my religion is just as true as yours. I follow a duo deity system of belief and I feel that you have no right to tell me that is wrong.

That is my personal problem with christians and christianity as a whole. I do not try to preach my beliefs to your children therefore I do not feel that you should preach your beliefs to mine.

Now personally I feel that is fair. And if we could prescribe to that in our schools I would be fine with it. All religions were recognized. So if that was the way it would be done I would have no problem with it. I am not against Christians, I am just for freedom of and that means ALL religions.

I have no problem with One Nation Under God, because in my religion we believe One God is All Gods. I have no problem with any of that, as long as you don't start with the my God the only God and yours is false and evil or wrong.

You are right fanatics and unfairness are on both sides you are right. Sadly as we have seen by the terriorist that happens in all religions. As for you serving your Lord, I will fight and die to perserve your right to serve your Lord, will you do the same for me to serve my Lord and Lady?

Aviana

Answer 5

You're free to insert whatever extra words you want in the Pledge of Allegiance, and to speak about your beliefs AS LONG AS THEY ARE NOT BOTHERING OTHERS OR VIOLATING ANYONE ELSE'S RIGHTS. The government is supposed to be religiously NEUTRAL.

The MINISTER who wrote the PoA deliberately left God OUT of it because he didn't want people to violate a Commandment every time they recited it. Please learn some FACTS.

Answer 6

You do realize that Under God wasn't even added until the 50s right?
No offense but views on abortion don't need to be discussed in school either. Talk about a moral hot bed.
It's easy as the majority to see what you think you are seeing. I live in the South. Tell someone your gay and you not only loose your job, you can be run out of town. I'm Pagan. I am terrified for my daughter and have sheltered her from religion in general. The still burn crosses down here, did you know that? They all scream from their safe lawns that they do it in Jesus' name. That if you aren't a God Fearing Christian woman than you don't deserve to be on the PTA or even walk through the school. They will tell their children to be hateful to yours so that you will leave.
Would you feel the same way if a different religion was the mainstream religion? Would you be screaming to keep faith in the schools then? If they were preaching Islam in science class would you feel the same way?
Religion is for church and home, not in school. That means MY religion too. I have no issue with that. I don't WANT the schools raising my children spiritually. Talk about being lazy!!

Answer 7

Good, so you and your house do that. But there is a clear clause in the constitution that says there is a separation of church and state. Therefore, keep religion out of state affairs. One nation under god? I don't believe that. I don't make you say one nation, not under god. Fact is though, we are one nation, regardless. Students are allowed to talk about god when asked on those issues. They can say, I don't believe in abortion because it is against my religion. Nobody can preach about god from the staff, do you understand the difference?

Oh, and it doesn't just stem to schools either. I can't buy alcohol on Sundays in the state I live. I don't even drink, but, by golly, if I want to, I should be able to buy a drink on any day of the week. Sunday isn't special to me. Monday is Special to Muslims and you don't slam the bars and liquor stores down on Monday. And Jews do Saturday. And I don't get my mail on Sundays either, or on Christmas. Why are they given Religious holidays off to state employees. It's not a state holiday. Therefore I want my dam mail, delivered to me on Sunday, you know, the mail that my atheist *** pays for. You guys have influenced it and you don't even know it.

Answer 8

Yes.
You may be right, if all the taxpayers contribute to public education, then all views should be equally represented.
But I would rather the public schools leave both the teachings of religion, and evolution, up to their parents.
Religion, as a teaching, does not prepare a studet for the working world, just as evolution does nothing to help a child learn to hold a job.
The skillset one needs should only include reading, writing, and math.
History? really does nothing to make a person an invaluable employee, neither does philosophy.
I would think, the school system would do our citizens a better service by training students vocationally, at younger ages, and introducing them to actively producing something of tangible value at youner ages.
They should really do away with the "spring break", summer vacation" and "winter (christmas) breaks" also.
Seriously, about 15 years ago, I had an apprentice that was supposed to start work the next day, and he asked me if we got "spring break" off! I was flabbergasted, and retorted, SURE, we also get summer vacation.
Needless to say, he did'nt work out.

Answer 9

we have a separation of church and state in our country and that is why we as non christians or non religious people want you to keep your beliefs out of our lives. you are free to 'serve' whomever you wish, but i don't have to subsidize that belief and i should not be forced to. you can worship the flying spaghetti monster for all i care, just don't do it in a public place paid for by EVERYONE.

Answer 10

Spent a lot on school taxes last year did you. Still in school and having to pay school tax. Unhead of and very unfair. Maybe they should not tax you until you get mature enough to reason things out.
Go to a private school if you want to see what supporting one is all about. You have no idea.