Did you know that Christians and non-Christians all have the same "proof"? Christians and "non-Christians"

Question

the SAME evidence, the same facts. We all have the same earth, fossil layers, animals, plants, stars etc. that we use to prove that God does or doesn't exist.

The difference is the way that we all interpret the facts. We interpret them differently because we start with different presuppositions or axioms.

So chill out with the angry and rude responses jeesh! Don't know why you're getting all hot and bothered :) I'm seeing a lot of "PROVE IT!" flying across here.

I'm sure I'll get a lot of arguments and questions arising from my own, but I'm not debating this one people. We DO have the same facts, it's all how we interpret them. I for one will continue to say that God exists, and you will never change my mind. Peace. :)

Oh before I forget, this is from Ken Ham's "War of the World View" and I agree with him. Thanks :)

Oh and BTW- I'm a Christian. Perhaps some of the other "Christians on here might want to read 2 Timothy 2:24-26 ... nice way to prove a point that we're trying to get rid of. Not ALL Christians are Bible thumping people carrying signs that says "God hates _____" .

Answer 1

There was a movie a while back starring Matthew McConaughey and Jodi Foster called "Contact". While the movie itself was not all that great, there is one scene in the film that I found quite profound. Foster plays a scientist, and McConaughey is a minister. She asks him for proof that God exists, as she can find none, and any logical mind would not believe in anything that has no proof. He asks her, "Did you love your father?",to which she replies, "Yes". He then says, "Prove it", and walks away. I thought this was a cool example for us "scientists" on how sometimes we have to rely on faith, and not facts.

Answer 2

Is the Ken Ham you refer to the same one who believes that the earth is only 6,000 years old and who opened that Creation museum? If it is then you have more reading to do because you're not getting the complete picture. There is no way the earth is only 6,000 years old, especially since we have samples of early writings that are at least 7,000 years old.
You can view this subject with a closed mind if you wish but it doesn't bring you any closer to the truth.

Answer 3

I like the way the it is stated in Hebrew 11:1 "Faith is the evidence of things not seen, the substance of things hoped for".

Whatever a person believes will color their interpretation of the "facts" around them. A Theist will look at the world and see the evidence of God everywhere. An atheist will look at the same world and see an absence of God. Their faith gives "evidence" or "proof" to them of things others can not see.

And their "faith" will also give substance to what they hope for. If they believe that God has called them go to school and get good grades, they will be motivated by the "faith" to do it. Their faith will cause them to give substance to their dreams.

So neither a theist or an atheist is any "smarter" or any more "realistic" then the other. They merely look at the evidence through different eyes.

Answer 4

You raised a key point here- you are relying on presuppositions and assumptions and no facts will change your mind. In other words, the evidence and the facts do not matter to you in reaching your conclusion, you are relying on your assumptions which, per tradition, you probably label "faith."

The thing is that I don't have presuppositions or assumptions. I am willing to believe what the evidence shows to be true. I am willing to disbelieve what the evidence shows to be false. I'm willing to suspend judgment when the evidence is inconclusive. If, at any time, new evidence or a new argument is raised that causes me to change my evaluation then I will change my mind.

What you are saying is that you will make up your mind and then look to the evidence to support it. I am saying I will look at the evidence and, based thereon, make up my mind.

So no, we don't have the same reasoning process at all.

Answer 5

"The difference is the way that we all interpret the facts. We interpret them differently because we start with different presuppositions or axioms."

Not even slightly. Theists start with conclusions, then warp everything to fit them. Scientists start with questions, then follow wherever they lead.

http://positiveliberty.com/2007/07/all-epistemologies-are-not-created-equal.html#more-2603

"Adopting fashionable pomobabble, Trask argues that magical understandings of the universe are just as acceptable as scientific understandings, but that preferences for science and reason over “revelation,” emotionalism, whimsical impulse, and other 'ways of knowing' is just so much prejudice. 'Scientific epistemologies,' he writes, 'legitimize the exclusion of those who do not understand truth exclusively through empirical verification.' Science is cruelly shoving magical theories away from the table, through its emphasis on such things as testability, or evidence, or replication of results and silly stuff like that. See, it’s just cultural imperialism to prefer a medical treatment that’s been subjected to rigorous double-blind field trials, instead of a witch doctor shaking his rattles and chanting."

Answer 6

My evidence clearly indicates phlogiston doesn't exist. What's that? You are from the Church of Phlogiston? You say phlogiston exists because your spiritual leader Joe says so? But here is all the evidence that it can't exist. I don't care what Joe says show me where I am wrong. What do you mean it says so right here that I am wrong in Joe's book? He doesn't include any facts just the statement phlogiston is real. What do you mean if I have faith phlogiston is real it will be? All my evidence...No, showing me one book with a statement in it does not make it true. Ahh screw it I give up. You people are crazy.

Answer 7

You are entitled to your OPINION, young lady, but not your facts. Evidence, not " proof " is what convinces one of the truth. The willful ignoring of said evidence is what commits one to the lie.

Answer 8

AMEN! I'm sick of rude, comments. Open your mind people and consider what others have to say!

-a buddhist with some Christian beliefs

Answer 9

Here, here!!!

This is probably the first NON-hateful post I have seen on here in ages - other than the smartassed ones, that is ;););)

Answer 10

Is this another of the mono-Atheists that believe in the singular, no name, God.......May the Gods and Goddesses have mercy on the poor soul.