If U can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time -- then HOW does Bush

Question

...manage to CON enough young people into thinking there's any honor in becoming cannon fodder in his illegal and mindless "war" in Iraq? How can anyone be crazy enough to ENLIST any more, since that would be their most likely assignment?

(I posted a question similar to this a few days ago, and got some decent responses. Of the 20, of course, there were some who were hawks, but they didn't seem to have much in the way of a grasp of the obvious FACTS regarding that losing debacle. UNfortunately, some loony tune deleted the question. That's the bad news. The good news is that I'd already printed it out, along with all its answers, BEFORE that happened to it! This last paragraph is just for the benefit of any who think I asked this before. Yes -- it was a *similar* question. And when it vaporized for absolutely *****NO***** good reason whatsoever (!!!!), it was still an OPEN question!)

To "John S" -- Well, I served honorably in the USAF when a literal war HERO (not an AWOL S.O.B.) was president, and stood up to Krushchev in the Cuban Missile Crisis. I was PROUD and happy to be serving at a time when our country was doing *honorable* things.

NOW we have a mindless Warmonger-in-Thief in the White House who just happens to very documentably be the worst mass-murderer the world has seen since Pol Pot.

BIG difference between 1963 and 2007. NOW do you see where I'm coming from on this?

To "Alex H" -- Every heard of a "Declaration of War?" The last time America fought a LEGAL war was WW II. As for my response to "John" -- just WHAT part of my statement, specifically, do you think you could REFUTE?

To "froggy" -- The LAST time we had a draft during an **inane** war, many thousands of *very* intelligent people discovered first-hand just how DELIGHTFUL Canada is, as a place to live.

To "Alex H." -- My comparison of *anyone's* serving under JFK vs. *anyone's* serving under GW Bush was quite valid. The former was worthwhile and patriotic work. The latter has been a waste of time, limbs, and lives.

As for a Declaration of War -- that IS what makes a war **legally** a war -- instead of a farce. I remember a newspaper headline when Gen. Westmoreland was about to address a joint session of Congress: "Restive Congress Awaits Westmoreland Speech." Congress was **deathly** afraid that Westmoreland was about to put them on the spot and ask them to go on record by making a formal declaration of war. Had he done so, that would have been wonderful to see! UNfortunately, Westmoreland stopped short of asking for that in his speech. Had he done so, and had Congress then DECLARED the war, it would have been the FIRST legal war for the USA since World War II. No war since has BEEN a war... they've all been mistakes, and we haven't won ANY of 'em. And we'll lose this, too!

To "froggy" -- **I** never dodged the draft and went to Canada. I have an Honorable Discharge from the USAF, in which I served with pride, because our country was then being defended against REAL enemies by a BONAFIDE and intelligent President. In 1961, there was no need to dodge the draft, and very few did.

As for your thumbs-downs, if you don't have the intelligence to see how WRONG you are, then that's your problem. You *deserve* those thumbs-downs, and those who gave them to you did so wisely and fairly. Serving under Bush is *nothing* to be proud of. The best our troops can hope to accomplish now is to get home again alive and in one piece from a FARCICAL "war," idiotically started by our Warmonger-in-Thief, that was based on LIES, and was lost right from the start.

To "Alex H." -- We LOST this phony, Warmonger-in-Thief-incited sorry excuse for a "war" right from the get-go. By now, we have WASTED 3,600 lives of our own cannon fodder, MURDERED over 100,000 innocent Iraqis in their *own* land, and SQUANDERED 600 billion dollars. This is the **dumbest** and most criminal action since we took on Vietnam, and the vast majority of people are finally smart enough to see that. And we will soon be sending Bush packing ALONG with his murderous "war", next year if not sooner.

I converse the same way I write -- inflections and all. In print, capitalized words denote the same inflections one hears in speech.

As for your poor ratings -- those are from PRO-America people. **BRAVO** to them!!

It would take less $$ to repair ALL of the USA's infrastructure than we already have wasted on this idiotic "war." We need to bring ALL our troops home NOW, and spend our money *wisely* instead. Right here at home.

To "Alex H." -- We've each made our points about the war, so I'll just say that since this IS an idiotic war, the best thing to do would be to get our troops home NOW, and stop getting them slaughtered for nothing.

As for the oil -- if we left, we'd still be on good terms with Saudi Arabia, which is the primary foreign source of it. And we have *enormous* amounts of our own oil. For more than most Americans can even imagine. Have you been to Alaska's North Slope? I was there in 1976, as the Pipeline was being put across the rugged Atigun Pass of the Brooks Range. And it was there that I learned of "Pet 4" -- an **untapped** NHorth Slope oilfield that is larger than the one by Prudhoe Bay. We literally don't need ANY foreign oil. We need 50 new refineries, and more pipelines, and we'll be fine.

As for the Middle East -- let 'em fight out their Civil War. Just as we did, 140 years ago. They don't need any more meddling from US.

To "Sean G" -- The last time Congress issued a Declaration of War also happened to be the last time we fought a worthwhile war against legitimate enemies -- WW II. Every "war" since has been **illegal** -- so it's quite fitting that we won NONE of 'em.

As for "Marxism" -- Look up "dialectical materialism" and get back to us if you ever actually learn anything about it.

To "Alex H." -- It looks like we have more in common in our views than I originally thought we did, and I've enjoyed our debate. And I *do* think military service is honorable, or I wouldn't have joined the Air Force. I just hate seeing our troops being abused by an incompetent Commander-in-Chief politico.

Answer 1

Most of these young men are too poor to be able to pay to go to college. The military offers them a possibility of doing that. They are lured into the situation and then brainwashed into thinking that they are fighting for "Democracy."

It is such a joke. This is George W. Bush's war, and it is about his oil investments in Yemen. It is about driving the price of oil up and payind off the Saudi bank, the BCCI, the money he owes them. Now he is selling them armaments. Why? So they can fight Iran. Why? So they can get into a big fight and drive the price of oil up further. It is disgusting

Answer 2

I am not a democrat or republican and neither a conservative or liberal. I will say I can't stand Bush and find him cocky.

He has power and had hide whatever he wants and justifies like a very conning and convincing person.

There are people enlisting for honor of our country. Those that were in at the time, are forced over there. They are there for they think they are doing the right thing and are told that is what and how they must do and think!! You have people in there that have mothers and fathers that have been in the military.

We should be taking care of our own!! What about New Orleans that never got fixed up and people living in sick FEMA trailers? Look how poorly it was handled. People having to live next to dead people!!

We have sick people in our country that can't get treatment. There is no allowance in this system for people who get fired from jobs that they either got too sick to work or too hurt to work. Fall under preexistings and then the Disability system!!

What a mess this USA is in and I am completely disgusted.

If I could find an island where there isn't a sick monkey, I would be there!! I have people at work talking of moving to Costa Rica!! Get that!!

Oh and foreclosures on properties and the insurance is absurdly high.

I would say we have a problem/s!!

Answer 3

It's dependent on a number of factors:
One... a patriotic fervor based upon fear of terrorist activities in America and fear of WMD's being brought in to America. This is why 9/11 was orchestrated: in order to show the sheep-like masses that we were "under attack."
Two... peer pressure. The old "if you disagree with us (the Bush government) then you must be a traitor" way of pressuring citizens into conformity with a fascist plan.
Three... ignorance, inexperience, and naiivete. Most young people in the US today have a very narrow, and alarmingly inaccurate, world view. They also have not been taught the lessons of history when it comes to fascism and dictatorships. As a result, they don't appreciate the warning signs of an emerging totalitarianism in the US government. They hold to the mistaken belief that "it could NEVER happen here!"
Four... honest good intentions. Many young paople join the service because they feel it is the right and honorable thing to do, giving oneself in service to your country. And, in short, it IS a good thing to do, providing that the country you are serving is not abusing the privilige of your service.

It is these social factors that the Bush/Cheney regime is depending upon to supply their war machine with fresh, new cannon fodder.

Answer 4

Some might enlist feeling a true desire to get revenge.
revenge for 9-11 or revenge for a loved one killed in Iraq.
A few of them just hate Arabs and want the chance to kill.
Others come from proud Military family's and wish to carry on the tradition no matter what is going on.

As for bush, I think that less than 20% of the country still supports him. He will be gone soon and that will be that.

Answer 5

I think that a lot of young people enlist because of the ¨supposed benefits¨ that the military provides. For example the military will pay for their college, but what the military doesn´t tell them is that they won´t have time for college because they´ll be off fighting the war!

Answer 6

Have you thought about running for Congress. We need people that can tell the difference between right and wrong and up and down.

Answer 7

Well I think, not all of our troops been con ed into anything, some, probably most are doing their duty serving their country. I think some still believe that this war is right. and we are taking the fight to the middle east instead of our own back yard. As long as terrorist bomb innocent ppl and kidnap innocent ppl to execute them, there will always be ppl willing to enlist willing to go to Iraq to fight them. I think our govt. don't realize that we can't win in Iraq as long as Iraqis in majority try to help themselves to democracy and fight terrorism them self..we cant do it for them and Terrorist doesn't realize that tactics of terrorism will never work. It only seems to work because of the shock effect but it will not work in terms of us giving into their demands.

Answer 8

There are enough people who have raised their children to never question the government. What bothers me is we're going to have to wait until September to see if the"surge" is working, which most will agree, isn't. Consider how many soldiers and civilians will die between now and September. It's very, very, sad.

Answer 9

Wow, that's two questions deleted that you have noticed. That sucks!

As for your obvious hatred of Bush, I tire of those battles I witness between conservatives and liberals...me, I'm a conservative/liberal/libertarian all rolled into one perfect union of 100% American mutt!!! Bow-wow!!

I'm pro-choice, anti-unrealistic logic, pro eradicating the IRS, anti-vote down party lines, anti-congress voting for own raises, pro-military might, pro building walls on U.S. Borders, anti-amnesty, anti-socialist programs, pro gun, pro gay marriage, pro legalize marijuana especially for medicinal purposes, and so on....

I broke the party line molds!!!! I like some things about Bush and liked some things about Clinton and likely would like some things about you and not like some things about you.

Me, I like Ron Paul...he makes more sense then anyone else!!

Answer 10

Why does it have to be about Bush? Why does it have to be about any president? A president will only be there for at most 8-11 years (if he is vice president and the president dies in the term of service and he is then elected twice as president). America will always be here. As long as there are men and women willing to risk their lives to defend it. It isn't about whether they think the war is right or wrong. They are following orders to get a paycheck just like anyone else in this country. Any yes, many are sucked in by the promise of benefits that are sadly not as good as they are portrayed to be. I know from experience that the health care for family members is atrocious, simply because the company that runs it will not properly do it's job and there are not enough doctors to cover all of the patients. But when you think about it, I mean truly think about it, if people just stopped enlisting, that Selective Service that all you fellows have to sign up for is going to bite you in the ***. You are going to end up in the army whether you like it or not with no choice of branch, job, or time served. Instead of bashing them and talking about how dumb they are for joining up, maybe you should be kissing their feet and thanking them for saving your *** from the barely disguised Draft. I swear, sometimes the ignorance of people who bash honest people just trying to make a decent living astounds me. Now you just remember that when you have convinced enough people not to join the military anymore that Uncle Sam is gonna be coming for you. And then I want you to thank my husband for keeping him away as long as he did, you thankless ape.

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Run to Canada because you are too scared to face selective service because you were too scared to enlist.... I find that funny for some reason... Yet you flaunt your service record. You don't make much sense sir. And I wear my thumbs down poor ratings as badges of honor. I am not defending any war, or any politician, I am simply defending a person's right to defend their country. To Fight, to have PRIDE. To love to the place they live, to hate their enemies. Alex and I are on the same page.