Is it possible to prove the existence of god without citing a religious text?

Question

Citing religious texts results in circular logic.

Example: The Bible says that God is real and God inspired the Bible.
Example II: The Quran says that God is real and God inspired the Quran.

This is circular logic and is therefore flawed.

Please, no jargon about how I am an evil atheist, no attacks on evolution or science as I didn't mention evolution or science. Please, no testimonies about how you felt god as your feelings are not proof of anything.

The last three times I have asked this question I have received rambling emotional testimonies and people pointing out the complexity of the life as proof. These things are not proof. One person actually cited religious text at me and several others left an unrelated comment about how the Bible predates the Quran. If you want to play that game, Zoroastrianism predates Christianity.

Please, no comments about how I should study the scripture, I've read the bible several times, it's exactly as invalid as every other religious text.

Answer 1

There is no proof. They throw all this stuff at you first in case you want to believe and just need the slightest provocation to delude yourself. When this fails they will usually finally admit its all based on faith or the desire to believe it. If they are evangelical they will proceed to tell you that they know God exists because they have the holy spirit and you need to get it before you understand. *sigh*

I wouldn't care if they weren't so bent on removing science from schools to teach their myths and imposing their faith based beliefs on others.

Answer 2

A very fair answer. There are some philosophy/theology arguments which can be made, such as: it is logical that a door, a table, or really any "thing" implies a creator, because as we know doors do not make themselves." So, creation (the universe) begs the question, "who created this."

Of course, we have the big bang which posits that something came from nothing, and then there is the counter-argument, "Well, who created God?" As a spiritually minded person, I believe that religion is about FAITH. It is built on logic and perception of the world, but some of that perception is emotional/intuitive. When reading the Bahai writings, spiritual, philosophical and poetic, I was touched. Something inside me said, "this is the truth." It was a combination of emotional and intellectual elements that led me to that conclusion, and another person reading the same text might come away with different conclusions.

In summary, although I believe there is evident of God (depending on your philosophical assumptions), I do not believe that logic and materialistic observation alone provide us with PROOF of God. If it was glaring and undeniable, then it would not constitute an act of FAITH to believe, which is the point.

Answer 3

You pose a question that can not be reproduced in a lab environment. In a hundred years or less it would be hard to prove I existed.

Four thoughts with this question.

1. People use religious text because if God did want to communicate with us, this seems to be a good way of doing it, and therefore a logical way of "proving" His existence. However this creates circular reasoning.

2. If God would allow Himself to be analyzed in a lab setting to prove He existed would He continue to do so and thus prove He exists?

3. You have probably heard this a hundred times before, but with God there comes an element of faith. There might be good evidence that my vehicle will get me where I am going safely, but it takes an element of faith to start the motor. I believe that there is sufficient evidence and what I have logical deduced as proof that God exists and cares about me, my family, and everyone.

4. Sometimes the next question people have is why does seem that God makes it so hard to believe in Him. To that I applaud you in that you are searching for answers and for truth. If you would like a good book to read that doesn't prove the existence of God but presents good evidence, I recommend reading Letters from a Skeptic by Gregory A. Boyd.

Answer 4

You have read the Bible several times......well that is interesting!!! The Bible is definitely not invalid but only you can find that out for yourself. The sad thing is your mind is so closed that you have not found the truth for yourself already. You like to try to knock what Christians and other religious organisations have but what do you have except the ambition to try to prove some point that you can't prove.....no more than people can prove the truth to you.
I am a 'born again' Christian and what I have written on my website is true in 'Mikes Testimony'....take it or leave it! I was a heavy drinker, always swearing, heavy smoker and fighter..I thought my life was OK until I got zapped........people who knew me as I was connot believe the difference
http://groups.msn.com/allforourlordjesus
Of course I don't expect you to believe anything i say as you are likely untrusting of anyone judging by your wording of the question......however, I have no reason to lie to anyone.
The other thing you could do if you are 'courageous' enough...is go on an Alpha Course......a FREE, non-denominational course on Christianity held by a Church near you which you can find at this site:- http://www.alpha.org
Go on! I dare you! Stop spouting and go for it! Who knows, it might be the best thing you ever did......if it is, please come back and tell me.
Best wishes, Mike.

Answer 5

No. "The book is true because, uh, it says it's true," is basically all they've got. Which raises the question... so every other supposed holy book in existence, even those that predate the Bible, don't claim to be true as well?

What you'll get from them if they decide to step out of that ridiculous logic is more ridiculous logic, most likely along the lines of "Look at how complex the universe is. How could it have all come about by accident?" where the logical next question that that line of logic brings up, of how a complex, intelligent, creative entity could've just itself came about entirely by accident is left conveniently ignored.

Another one you might hear goes along the lines of "Well, I feel it in my itty bitty heart and when I pray I feel the presence of God and it's just like, something you have to experience for yourself."

Which, again, raises the question: So you don't think that a devout Muslim, hunched over in prayer, doesn't feel the exact sort of euphoria that you feel when you pray? They feel the 'wrong' sort of presence of God, whereas you feel the correct one?

But I digress... No, no, and no. That is the answer to your question.

Answer 6

There was not always a bible, yet mankind has worshiped someone who they believed had special powers over them. Sometimes representing this "unseen" power with idols and massive temples. Why? Because the workings of creation convinced them that there was something else out there. So even if you don't want to believe in the Adam and Eve thing, what is the rationalization for their forms of worship? I can only think that it is because God does exist.

Just like the wind exists, we can't see it, but we know it is there, and we know it can be powerful, yet, we cannot see the wind. So, since we cannot see the wind, I guess it does not exist?? Both God and creation have left behind their foot prints for us to peruse.

Answer 7

Yes Sir i can proof u without refering to Bible Quran or Torah
focus on what i say " if u go 2 library and u take a book u think who has written that book " simply if u see stars moon sun earth u believe that there is a lord controlling all this there u go.

Answer 8

Read: Mortimer Adler's "How to Think About God". The author reviews the philosophical approaches concerning adjudicating the question of God's existence. Further, Aquinas' "Five Ways" are an attempt to think about the question of God's existence in a manner that is not derived from the claims of a divine revelation. Many do not accept his arguments, but they represent the type of approach that you seem to be looking for. Good luck with your inquiry.

Answer 9

We had a fella in work who was a Christian. He came into work one night all excited. He said he had scientific proof that God exists. I told him about a time that we had been to a canyon in Utah. It was noon and the sun was shining brightly. Just then, the clouds turned black and it started to rain. Just as quickly, the clouds passed and the rain stopped. The sight of the canyon glistening wet was astounding. I told the fella I didnt need man's scientific proof to prove there is a God. That canyon in Utah and other wonders was all the proof I needed. This is me and I wouldnt think of trying to prove to an atheist why I think God exists. It's up to you to prove to me that God doesnt exist. What proof do you have?

Answer 10

No offense, but as completely against the bible as you are, I highly doubt you've read it more than once, if you indeed read it once. I don't go around reading things that don't interest me unless there is an underlying purpose. Your underlying purpose is to discredit the existence of god, thus anything in the bible you read not pertaining to that was ignored.