Is metaphor + historicity a better basis for "faith" than literalism + legalism?

Question

Here's an interesting article I read years ago and went web-searching for this morning:

http://www.worldagesarchive.com/Reference_Links/False_Testament_(Harpers).htm

A worthwhile read if you have the time . . . basically, it presents archeaological evidence that the stories of Abraham, Isaac, Moses, David and Solomon in the OT were all every bit as mythological as, well, the tales of other cultures about Hercules or Quetzacoatl or . . . even Odin.

It also demonstrates that Judaism as an organized religion *really* only dates to about the mid-first-millennium BCE.

Now, as someone who obviously *doesn't* believe Earth is the corpse of the primordial giant Ymir but STILL finds sustaining spiritual truths in Norse myth, folk tradition and ethnocultural religion . . . I have to wonder why that just isn't ENOUGH for some people.

Powerful spiritual metaphors + historicity and rich cultural heritage *can and do* = religion. Isn't it time Christians embraced this idea?

Moosemose, I don't do copy 'n paste. Please state your answer in your OWN WORDS.

Jack P, that's three insulting snarks in one morning. Welcome to the "3 Strikes You're Out" section of Boar's Block List. Taa~!

Beth H . . . aaaah! Now, THAT'S the refreshing Zen twang of someone "getting it!" I'm not suggesting Christianity is a "bad" religion . . . just that fundamentalist literalism is a "bad," or at least limited, stilted, and incomplete Christianity.

Answer 1

Thanks for the great article. One thing I always find surprizing when the literalism of the christian fundamentalists is discussed is that we all seem to assume that this is the conventional view. Far from it. This doctrine dates from 1910 at the earliest. For 1900 years, christianity worked just fine interpreting the bible as a metaphorical source of higher meaning (and even today many people do this, myself for example). So really, your question is just suggesting that we should return to basing our faith on what has been proven to work over the long sweep of history, through many eras and for many different cultures.

Answer 2

Yes, very inspiring.

And Odin isn't a far shot....he also hung around suffering on a tree remember. Symbolism is universal and psychological and spiritual concepts are 'of their time', and on they roll and mutate and regenerate. Shame about the hate and division, shame about the waste of *can and do* as you say.

Take no notice of certain religionists calling you a 'busybody'.

That's arguably the only *use* for dogma; to fuel crankiness and stifle honest inquiry.

Answer 3

I completely understand where you are coming from.
The Egyptians had a ton of stories explaining things and I obviously don't take them literally. But with in those stories is a message that I think is timeless. It doesn't diminish my faith in a higher powers. I take them a stories.

Answer 4

if muslims and christians took your approach there would be a lot less trouble, and religion wouldnt get nearly as much heat from the secular world

abortion

stem cells

iraq

Answer 5

I will definitely read this when I have the time. But your argument makes sense anyway.

Answer 6

Q: I have to wonder why that just isn't ENOUGH for some people.

A: You don't have to wonder. You choose to wonder because you're a silly busybody troubling yourself over what other people believe.

Answer 7

*appaluse* Bravo! Nice link, too.

Answer 8

Sorry, there is No URL for this Doctrine, but it is rather short. Enjoy! John

DOCTRINE OF FAITH

A. Definition.
1. Basically there are three systems of human perception.
a. Faith is a non-meritorious system of perception based on
confidence in the authority and the veracity of another. Faith is not based
on one's own knowledge, as is rationalism or empiricism.
b. Rationalism is reason from the source of knowledge in itself,
superior to and independent of any other source of perception. Rationalism
says that reality is what you think to be true. Rationalism requires a high
I.Q., from which systems of philosophy are often developed.
c. Empiricism is knowledge from perception by observation and
experience rather than by theory. All ideas are derived from some sensuous
experience using the eyes, ears, nose, touch, etc, having no innate or a
priori conceptions.
2. Perception by faith is always non-meritorious. It depends on the
authority, veracity, and ability of someone else. Faith requires authority.
3. Faith also means a system of doctrine or a creed perceived by
faith; i.e., what is believed.

B. Etymology.
1. Hebrew.
a. The verb AMAN means to believe, to support, to use someone as
a prop, a crutch; to use someone else to be supported. The root meaning is
a foundation on which you build something.
(1) In Isa 28:16, the hiphil means to cause to believe. The
hiphil in Gen 15:6 uses AMAN for the salvation of Abraham, meaning to use
God as a prop and foundation.
(2) Further, AMAN means to prove oneself, to stay faithful
to, to remain or continue.
(3) Metaphorically, AMAN means to be faithful, trustworthy,
and sure, as in Prov 19:8; Gen 42:20; 1 Kg 8:26; Hos 5:9.
b. The noun EMUNAH means faithfulness, security, or that on which
security is based, e.g., the integrity of God.
c. The noun EMUN means integrity, fidelity, reliability.
d. The noun OMEN means doctrine, truth, faithfulness.
e. The noun EMETH means faithfulness, integrity, stability.
f. The verb BATACH is a wrestling term, which means to trust in
the sense of slamming your troubles on God; this has a faith-rest
connotation. In Ps 37:3 and 91:2, it also means to confide in someone.
g. The verb CHASAH means to hide in the cleft of a rock, as a
rabbit does when chased by a fox. This verb is used for suffering and
adversity. It means to trust in the sense of taking shelter or taking
refuge in Bible doctrine; to believe in the integrity of God, Ps 57:1, 2:12,
5:12, 25:20, 7:1.
h. The verb JACHAL means to trust the Lord in time of great pain
or disaster, Lam 3:21,24. In Job 13:15, it means to have hope and to wait.
It is used for faith under great pressure, intense suffering, and pain.
i. The verb QAWAH is the strongest word for faith, used in Ps
25:3. It depicts a fine thread woven into a giant rope that cannot be
broken. It is used in Isa 40:31 for the faith of a mature believer. In Lam
3:25 it means to wait. This word means that faith which gets its strength
from outside of itself, connoting the non-meritorious aspect of faith. All
merit lies in the object of faith.
2. Greek.
a. The noun PISTIS.
(1) Used as an attribute, PISTIS is what causes trust or
faith, reliability, faithfulness, or integrity, Tit 2:10; 2 Thes 1:4.
(2) In the active sense, PISTIS means faith, confidence,
trust, faith as a recognition of and acceptance of Bible doctrine. In the
active sense, faith is used in three ways.
(a) Saving faith, Eph 2:8; 1 Jn 5:4-5.
(b) The three stages of the faith-rest drill, Rom 3:20;
Heb 4:3.
(c) The metabolization of Bible doctrine.
(3) The passive meaning of PISTIS is Bible doctrine, meaning
that which is believed, i.e., doctrine, the body of belief, which is
obedience to authority. PISTIS is so translated "doctrine" is such passages
as Gal 1:23; 2 Pet 1:5; 1 Tim 1:19, 4:1,6; Heb 11.
b. The noun PISTOS, used as an adjective in the passive sense
means being trustworthy, worthy of trust, faithful, dependable, and
inspiring trust. In the active sense, it means trusting or believing.
c. The verb PISTEUO means to believe, to trust something to
someone, to use someone as an object of faith, Gal 2:16. It only takes a
little more than no faith at all to be saved, Acts 16:31.
d. The verb PEITHO in the passive means to come to believe, to
obey, to be persuaded or convinced. The perfect passive means to have
confidence, to be absolutely convinced, to be certain. The active meaning
as in Gal 1:10 means to convince, to persuade, to appeal, to win over. The
perfect tense with a present meaning means to depend on someone, to trust in
someone, to have confidence.
e. The verb PISTOO means to show oneself faithful; to be
convinced; to have confidence, 2 Tim 3:14.

C. Biblical Use of "Faith" or PISTIS.
1. PISTIS is used for doctrine in Heb 11:1-3. "In fact, doctrine is
the reality from which we keep receiving confidence, the proof of matters
not being seen; for by means of doctrine men of old gained approval."
2. A description of faith is found in 2 Cor 4:18. "We look not at the
things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen [essence of
God]; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are
not seen are eternal." Faith is the means by which we perceive reality in
the invisible essence of God.
3. Sometimes both the faith-rest technique and doctrine are described
in the meaning of PISTIS, as in 2 Cor 5:7. "We walk by faith and not by
sight." Your eyes are in your soul, and your soul must have Bible doctrine.
We see the unseen through doctrine. Doctrine gives us relationship with the
integrity of God which sustains us in time of disaster. We see the justice
and integrity of God through doctrine.
4. Heb 11:6, "And without doctrine resident in the soul, it is
impossible to please God, for when one is occupied with God, he must be
convinced that He is and that He becomes a rewarder of those who diligently
seek Him."
5. Rom 10:17, "Doctrine comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of
God."
6. Gal 5:22, "The fruit of the Spirit is doctrine."
7. In each verse above, PISTIS relates faith to the perception of
Bible doctrine. PISTIS means both faith and doctrine. All perception of
doctrine is accomplished through the function of faith perception.
8. 1 Tim 1:19 and 4:1 use PISTIS for the doctrine of demons.

D. Faith is the means of salvation adjustment to the justice of God.
1. Believing is non-meritorious perception. The merit is always found
in the object of faith (Jesus Christ) and not in the subject, the one having
the faith (the believer).
2. That salvation is by faith and faith alone in Jesus Christ is
documented in many passages, including Acts 16:31; Jn 3:16,18-19,36 6:47,
20:31; Rom 3:22,28, 4:5, 9:30; Gal 2:16, 3:26; 1 Jn 3:23, 5:4-5. Salvation
adjustment to the justice of God is believing in Christ.
3 The justice of God is our point of contact with the essence of God
because justice judged our sins in Christ on the cross. The mechanics of
receiving all blessing from the justice of God is grace. Grace is non-
meritorious, compatible with faith, Eph 2:8-9.

E. Faith is a system of doctrine or what is believed.
1. The object of faith is Bible doctrine. This includes both doctrine
in perception and in application. Bible doctrine is invisible. Faith is
confidence in the unseen. Bible doctrine must be transferred to our right
lobe by means of faith.
2. The perception concept is related to post-salvation epistemological
rehabilitation. The application concept is related to the faith-rest drill
or reverse concentration.
3. Once you have Bible doctrine on the launching pad of your soul,
then the faith-rest drill in its maximum use applies doctrine to experience.
4. Maturity adjustment to the justice of God demands maximum Bible
doctrine in the right lobe, which comes through the daily perception,
metabolization, and application of Bible doctrine.
5. The intake of Bible doctrine results in maximum blessing to your
soul. Blessing does not come because of your self-righteousness,
personality, good works, or anything else.

F. The Object of Faith.
1. The object of faith always has the merit. There is no merit in the
subject because faith is a non-meritorious system of perception.
2. All the faith in the world secures nothing but condemnation from
the integrity of God. We are born with faith. We first learn vocabulary
by faith.
3. However, the tiniest bit of faith in Christ secures eternal
salvation. It only takes a little more faith than no faith at all. It is
the object of faith that counts, not the worthiness of the one with faith.
4. There is no merit in believing; the merit lies in the object of
faith.
5. For salvation adjustment to the justice of God, the object of faith
is Jesus Christ. For maturity adjustment to the justice of God, the object
of faith is Bible doctrine.
6. Faith is not something we do, but it is the channel by which we
appropriate what God has done for us.
7. For rebound adjustment to the justice of God, the object of faith
is two-fold, depending on the believer's spiritual growth.
a. The Scripture is the object of faith for the immature
believer, 1 Jn 1:9; 1 Cor 11:31; Ps 35, 32:5, 38:18; Prov 28:13.
b. For the mature believer, doctrine is the object of faith, and
the integrity of God is the basis for understanding the forgiveness of our
sins through rebound.
8. Through these adjustments to the justice of God and blessings from
the integrity of God, Jesus Christ becomes the author and finisher of our
faith, Heb 12:2.

G. The Application of Faith in the Function of the Faith-Rest Drill.
1. Faith must be exercised as it develops. Learning doctrine develops
faith. As this occurs, faith has the increasing ability of perception, of
learning more and greater details in the Word of God, Heb 4:1-3.
2. God has blessing which will only be yours if you relate totally to
the integrity of God by learning doctrine, 1 Pet 1:7-8.
3. Bible doctrine is the royal family's currency. Bible doctrine is
the working currency in the life of every believer. Learning doctrine gives
you currency to understand the integrity of God.
4. Abraham's circumcision is the classical illustration of the mature
believer with maximum adjustment to the justice of God making application of
his faith, Rom 4:17-21. Abraham's sacrifice of Isaac was the proof or
testing of his mature faith, Gen 22:1-18.
5. The mechanics of the faith-rest drill comprise three stages.
a. Stage one: Faith claims promises from the Bible, Heb 4:1-3,
which can be called mixing the promises of God with faith.
b. Stage two: Faith claims doctrinal rationales, like the
essence of God rationale, the plan of God rationale, the logistical grace
rationale, the a fortiori rationale, the escrow/election rationale, etc.
This stage is known as reverse concentration, the application of doctrine.
c. Stage three: Faith reaches doctrinal conclusions and is in
control of the situation. This becomes the function of spiritual
self esteem. It is the third stage of the faith-rest drill that brings you
to spiritual self-esteem.

H. The Victory of Faith, 1 Jn 5:4-5.
Relationship with the integrity of God is greater than any pressure or
disaster in life. It is more important than anything in life, whether
failures, successes, pressures, or prosperity.


Answer 9

outstanding. thanks!