Please, ONLY for those Christians who accept the doctrine of election (that God chooses who will be saved)?

Question

I also believe that the Bible teaches this. But I would like to know your thoughts concerning a particular Scripture ?

1 Timothy 2:4 -

"(God) desires all men to be saved and to come to the full knowledge of the truth." (insert mine)

How do you reconcile this with the election teaching that God chooses some, but not others, for salvation ?

Your thoughts, please ? Any quotes from Bible teachers which are relevant ? Links to any useful websites ?

Thanks in advance for your time.

May the Lord bless you.

Grodno -

Hi there.

Please feel free to submit an answer to the question then, if you have one.

Beekay -

Yes, the context of 1 Timothy 2:4 would appear to support the idea that "all men" refers to "all manner of men".

In the preceding verses 1 & 2, Paul exhorts that "..supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made FOR ALL MEN, FOR KINGS AND ALL WHO ARE IN AUTHORITY" (caps for emphasis).
In verse 7, Paul stresses that he was appointed a "teacher of the GENTILES in faith and truth."

Bible teacher John MacArthur's comments on this verse are as follows -

"The distinctive feature of Paul's apostolic appointment, which demonstrates the universal scope of the gospel. Paul's need to make this distinction suggests he was dealing with some form of Jewish exclusivism that had crippled the Ephesians' interest in praying for Gentiles to be saved."

I'm not thoroughly convinced by his explanation, but I am inclined to think that "all men" does indeed refer to "all races", and not "all men" without exception.

The omnipotence of our sovereign God is clearly taught throughout Scripture.

For God to will that "all men" without exception be saved, yet - for whatever reason - be unable to carry out his desire, renders Him somewhat less than all-powerful. This cannot be.

Answer 1

We read the Word of God in a different language than it was written. They have done an excellent job translating but the Greek sometimes can be translated with different terms or the terms have several meanings depending on context. Here the Greek can properly be translated as "all" men but also can be translated as "all manner of" men. So when we look at the context we see the Apostle is teaching prayer for all manner of men (even kings who then were not of the Jews). One of the difficulties early on was the understanding (Paul calls it a mystery in Ephesians) that God had now set aside the Jewish nation as His chosen ones and is now gathering the Gentiles into the same relationship and as equals (shock to the Jew here!) in the Kingdom. Even Peter stumbled at this point and Paul had to rebuke him. So there are a number of places that the Scriptures refer to the Gospel call going to all which never meant every living person but all kinds of people as in rich and poor, men and women, Jew and Gentile (they are all equal in Christ). Also Paul clearly teaches election elsewhere so the clear must shed light on the less clear. I can't find a very good short work on this that I had somewhere but seems to be gone. Its title was Calvin vs. Hyper Spugeonism but I don't remember who put it out. So it seems like this is just a case of getting the correct meaning of the word "all" and proper Greek allows for "all manner of", as well as several other meanings.

Answer 2

The text likely means "all sorts of men" and not "all men". The literal Greek reads "who all men is willing to be saved...". If 'men' was the generic term signifying all mankind it would read 'all mankind'. But it doesn't.

The word 'all' has two senses; absolutely and relatively, i.e. all without exception or all without distinction. So this verse means all without distinction. Compare with Mark 1:5 and Luke 7:30, Luke 3:21, Acts 22:15. See Matthew 20:28 - 'many'.

Understandably, many people have stumbled at the idea that God 'calls' everybody yet refuses many of them. The doctrine of prevenient grace is that God's grace that calls, convicts and enables, is resistible. However, Romans 11: 29 states that God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. It does NOT say 'irresistible' yet if God issues a call and never revokes it, the idea is surely legitimate that such a call will be fulfilled, in time. This gives great confidence regarding the nation of Israel, for although it has been for centuries in a state of unbelief regarding Messiah, God's purposes to save Israel will yet be fulfilled.

Answer 3

As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8),
but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12),
and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15).

Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13)."

Catholic

Answer 4

Carl, I recently posted this answer to a similar question regarding "Calvinism & Armineism".
I think it covers the gist of your question.

As for the verse 1Tim 2:4
You must remember there are two kinds of grace just as there is two different kinds of "will" with God.

There is "common" grace that God gives to all men. (the air we breathe, the food He provides, and the earth He gives us to live on).
Then there is special grace that enables us to believe. (I forget the theological name for it. "Previent" or something like that?)
ITim 2:4 falls under His "common" will.

The following is the answer I posted about a week ago. (I'm feeling a little lazy tonight and dont want to start from "scratch" lol)

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I going to try to make this as short as I can.

Election/Predestination and Freewill are both taught in the Bible.

It is only a contradiction to folks that try to apply the wrong one to the wrong group.

For example:
Predestination/Election applies ONLY to Believers. It is NEVER applied to unbelievers. The reason the doctrine is stated in Scripture, (I believe) is to give assurance to the believer. If a person was "chosen" and "elected", then one never has to worry about losing ones salvation. It is a very, very comforting doctrine. NOBODY is ever described as "pre-destined" for hell.

But on the other hand, NO believer is said to have chosen the Lord (In the sense of freewill. "You have not chosen me, I have chosen you".) If it were up to us, the Scriptures indicate that none would choose God.

Freewill is only for the unbeliever. The unbeliever is to repent and receive the good news of the Gospel. I believe that it is stated in the Scriptures so as to show that there is responsibility for ones sin.

If you try to apply either doctrine to the wrong group you end up with contradiction and confusion.

Remember. God is ALWAYS fair and just and full of Grace. As sinful people we do NOT want Justice. Justice means hell for all. God has the right to give Grace to whom He chooses. Though none deserve it. Read the parable of the "Laborers for Hire". That is the WHOLE point of the parable.

I hope this helps.
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....theBerean

Answer 5

If God is choosing who is saved, doesn’t that undermine our free will to chose and believe in Christ? The Bible says that we have the free will choice – all we have to do is believe in Jesus Christ and we will be saved (John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10). The Bible never describes God rejecting anyone who believes in Him or turning away anyone who was seeking Him (Deuteronomy 4:29). Somehow, in the mystery of God, predestination works hand in hand with a person being drawn by God (John 6:44) and believing unto salvation (Romans 1:16). God predestines who will be saved, and we must choose Christ in order to be saved. Both facts are equally true. Romans 11:33 proclaims, “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable His judgments, and His paths beyond tracing out!”

Answer 6

Mosaic regulation? it is God's regulation given *by* Moses. Abrahamic covenant? it extremely is a covenant between God and His human beings, Israel, given *by* Abraham. Mosaic covenants? Covenants between God and Israel given *by* Moses. those Covenants are surpassed from mom to newborn and on occasion leads others to have self belief that Jews belong to a separate race of persons. it extremely is not the regulation of Moses, nor Abraham's covenant, nor Moses' covenants. all of it is between God and Israel, not between God and the Assyrians, nor the Egyptians, nor the Christians, nor the Muslims, nor the Philistines! The Hebrew Bible became written via Jews, FOR Jews, and approximately Jews. you will possibly be able to all write your own books, borrow from the Hebrew Bible, and prophesy in regards to the afterlife, yet NONE of it negates any of distinctive covenants between God and ISRAEL! there's no secret in Judaism! you are going to be a Jew without concept in something supernatural! .

Answer 7

Sorry, never was good at taking orders. This is one of the thousands of biblical self-contradictions, just one reason I gave up religion. You'll get excuses, mostly having to do with free will, but the reality is that if a god desired this, he'd have put better evidence here on earth.

Answer 8

We cannot explain the freewill of man and the sovereignty of God....they work together...we just don't know how.

I leave it all in the hands of faith.

Is God's desire that all men be saved? Absolutely
Will all men be saved? No
Is there a rational explanation for that? Nope.....it's called faith & trust that He will do what He said He would do

Edit:
I've held back for an awful long time with this but.....you have no idea just how tired I am of jonjon's remarks to my posts. There's so much I want to say to him but.....I am bound by my love for Christ.

Answer 9

Karma. Everyone is at a different level spiritually and some not yet able to ascertain the truth (about themselves/their purpose). Saved from what? Misery and suffering in the here and now - hell. There's another phrase, "All are called but few there be that listen."

Answer 10

Without getting into massive amounts of theology, I simply believe that God already knows who is going to accept His Son and those who won't. He is Omnipotent, He knows everything, past, present and future. Some might call this "election" but I just think it's a matter of God already knowing who will accept and who will reject. Many will hear, but not all come to Him. You have the free-will, but God already knows what your choice is.