So I (an atheist) was reading one of the athiestic blog sites (ebonmusings) when it dawned on me that I was...

Question

wrong.







I had been doing something that I condoned -- subconsciously preparing to incorporate the information while I logically followed the path of reasoning presented to arrive at the same conclusion; in other words (to a small extent) not thinking for myself. The ideas could not be truly called mine own (indeed, when can they ever be, except in the realm of idealogical relativity).

So, instead, I have decided to read the articles of others that come in direct contrast to what I currently believe, and by doing so claim the process vital to (my sense of original) growth. I have thus been reading a site ( http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/answers.html )
and systematically devising counterarguments against the points presented there (do not take this to mean that I do not approach the site with an open mind and try to disprove before I see. I absorb the points a la tableau rousseau and then analyze them)

Damn, no more space. refresh when you get here, I'll add details...

I find this method to be much more intellectually satisfying. It lets me develop my own beliefs without claiming to be heavily influenced by others.

So, this post was two part.

1. a call for both parties to read into the best of the arguments of the other party

and

2. To ask theists to give me their best, most scientific, best-written out sites so that I may continue my intellectual growth (while simultaneously abandoning them in favor of conflicting texts Atheist do the ame :) )

What the bloody hell. Did any of you read my actual post?

And I apologize for my verbose (wordy :p :p) style of writing. Sorry if it makes things a little difficult to understand, ask and I will clarify.

Tabula Rasa haha. I wanted to use that word but didn't know the proper spelling so I entered an estimated spelling into google and it gave me that. :)

Answer 1

You and I commit the same error. We use sentences too long and words too obscure to get our point across.

I think people believe you now have become a Christian. But I understand you to be saying that you believe we should get to know the other side rather than just bolstering our own beliefs.

There's some truth to this, and I commend your thoughts. I've starred your question, and you can email me if you get any good sites that are worth reading.

(Unfortunately, the intellectual rigor of the apologists is not very strong.)

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EDIT:
I looked through your link. It is more of the same, although he is at least not a young earth creationist.

The bottom line for apologists is that they reach a conclusion, then search for evidence to back it up, rather than the more reason based approach of examining the evidence, then drawing conclusions.

If apologists were in charge of the criminal justice system, we would still be having witch trials.

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Answer 2

I read part of his introduction. I think it looks pretty weak. However I will look at it again later. I saw nothing new or interesting in the first two pages though.
I usually do not read the apologist sites much because they are actually painfully irrational.
This Rich Deem guy starts off by arguing from credulousness and then demonstrates by his discussion of the Big Bang theory that he does not realize that it was originally a religious proposition to allow for creation to happen, or that it is still just a hypothesis and is only a theory in popular speech. In the first two pages there are 5 fallacies presented and if these are to be expanded upon I guess it will be another very painful site to read through. I can already assume that in spite of his blather about evidence he will be presenting absolutely none.

Answer 3

If you're going to be pretentious, at least use decent grammar and a vocabulary at your own level.

Take this humdinger, for instance . . .

"I had been doing something that I condoned"

. . . That's nonsense -- probably because you used the wrong word. Perhaps you meant "condemned". The word "condoned" refers to something you pardon, forgive, overlook or disregard.

Then you follow that crap with . . .

"subconsciously preparing to incorporate the information while I logically followed the path of reasoning presented to arrive at the same conclusion"

. . . Pretentious gobbledegook. If it's "subconscious", it's below the level of conscious perception. So "subconsciously preparing" is a contradiction in terms. The rest of that sentence displays a penchant for verbosity that suggests overcompensation for the purpose of self-aggrandizement. Jeesh, now you got me doing it!

After that sentence, I decided I didn't need to read the rest of your self-absorbed ramblings.

So your followup, and I quote . . .

"What the bloody hell. Did any of you read my actual post?"

. . . . was highly offensive, coming from you. Your hubris knows no bounds.

Get a clue -- use words you know and write in a less tortuous manner. Criminy!

Answer 4

Terry Pratchett: Hogfather Terry Pratchett: Small Gods Christopher Moore: Lamb Tom Holt: Ye Gods Tom Holt: Odds And Gods Neil Gaiman: American Gods Neil Gaiman: Neverwhere. Baigent and Leigh: The Messianic Legacy

Answer 5

Nice work. This question is a great experiment in seeing where the average YA user's reading comprehension skills are at. I see exactly what you're gettin' at. You want to avoid taking someone else's work and using that as your reason for believing the way you do. You want to educate yourself more on the subject and define your beliefs in your own words. Not a terrible thing to do at all. After all, us atheists spend a lot of time mocking christians for citing bible quotes as their reasoning. We shouldn't turn around and do the same thing. Too bad most of these guys think you're a convert.

Answer 6

Tableau Rousseau? Don't you mean tabula rasa?

Fake.

Answer 7

Did you convert to the religion of verbosity and pompousness?
You could have said all that in one five sentence paragraph.

Answer 8

So basically what you are saying is you used make the answers fit your question but now you are going to read christian stuff to try and pick holes in it.

why?

Answer 9

So mr big word user do you now believe in God? email me. Here is a type of website that some info might be useful
http://www.wyattmuseum.com/index.htm

Answer 10

i see why you want to get both sides of the story before you make up your mind.......

but i find most pro-religion sites to be dreadfully illogical.