(Some) Christians and reason . . .?

Question

For a spell a few months ago, I tried to understand Christianity with logic and reason. The more answers I received to my questions, the less the Bible made sense logically. I settled back firmly into my agnostic beliefs.

This, however, has led me to a question for any Christian who wants to answer. During that spell of questions, several answerers provided me with answers that were clearly carefully thought out. Some said that I could not apply logic to the Bible. And they explained why.

But here's what I don't understand: Logic and reasoning are natural human processes. In fact, Christians use reasoning to understand what they believe. The Christians who answered my questions used reasoning processes to explain their answers. Some of the logic itself was flawed, but the reasoning was there.

So, why can't I apply logic and reasoning to the Bible? And what do you think I should do when the Bible does not meet the standards of logic and reasoning?

So, fireball, are you saying the two cannot be combined . . . even though you use reason to understand your beliefs?

Mrs. Sexy Pants, go through my old questions.

jldevin: do you realize you just used reasoning to answer the question?

Steve: While I see where you are coming from, the word "should" is problematic. From my perspective, everyone "should" use logic over faith. However, everyone DOES use reason. Do you see the dilemma?

I cannot agree with the concept that I "should" have faith in a god. To me, this is no different than telling me what I should and should not believe. And I imagine you can see how problematic that is.

UnPope: I always like your answers. And you are free to criticize! That's why I'm asking. :)

Of course, atheism is an option. So are other beliefs. For me, though, I find it arrogant to say absolutely that a god does or does not exist. The only absolutes in my book are hard facts like, "A human being can only survive if oxygen is provided, either naturally or artificially."

Maybe this information will reveal some contradictions or hypocrisy in my philosophy; I'm not sure. I'm still working it all out. :D

Agnosticism, odd as it may sound, is the most logical choice to me as there are no conclusive facts one way or the other. But I always want to learn more. If you have something to offer me, I'll listen. Same with the Christians.

Starbrite: Do I believe in anything supernatural? Hi, I'm agnostic. I don't know. :D

Logical forms of deductive and inductive reasoning are not subjective. They are actually quite strict.

"The Bible is logical. You can use logic."
-- Please demonstrate.

Where and whom have you studied with?
-- I teach critical thinking. Studying with a religious group who has been taught to "spread the word" would hardly provide an objective group. A mix of secular and religious would prove better. That's why I studied at both a public and a private Lutheran college.

Answer 1

Most analytic philosophers will argue that we must hold onto certain basic beliefs, such as noncontradiction (i.e. X and ~X cannot both be true at the same time).

The problem is that some Christians (I'm looking at you, Plantinga) want to posit God as a basic belief, and some go a step further than posit Christianity, even where Christianity conflicts with other basics (like noncontradiction).


The major reason I quit Christianity was I prefer simple, obvious beliefs like noncontradiction and modus ponens to the Christian monstrosity of metaphysical morass.

Answer 2

Logic and reason can be applied to the Bible, but to a certain point. You said it yourself they are NATURAL HUMAN processes. When you deal with Christianity or most other religions for that matter, you step into the area of the SUPERnatural. If you believe that just because something doesn't make sense to your natural mind and senses it invalidates it than there's not much I can say to you. Do you have belief in the supernatural at all? If not, that's the problem.

There are just certain parts of Christianity people can just not wrap their head around, such as the Trinity. How the Father, Son, and the Spirit are one. Without faith, a person is not Christian. You can teach them all about the Bible, but the Bible was not meant to be read from a logical standpoint.

And I just want to add that logic and reasoning can be subjective. Your logic and reasoning can be completely different than someone elses. Both could make sense.So when you say it doesn't meet the standards of logic and reason, perhaps it just doesn't meet YOUR standards of logic and reason. I started reading CS Lewis Mere Christianity a while ago, and the first few chapter set up a very logical case for Jesus and Christianity. I was already a Christian at the time, and did not really need convincing, but he gave a beautiful defense just using some very basic logic and reason. But at some point, faith has to take over. The word faith appears in the Bible hundreds of times, faith doesn't demand confirmation or evidence. I don't have all the answers, but some of the wisest people are the ones who will admit they can't explain everything and that just because they can't doesn't make something incorrect.

Answer 3

I think the answer depends on what you mean by logic and reasoning. Some atheists here have dismissed miracles as an example. To a "logical" mind a miracle makes no sense. Yet does that leave the only alternative a "God did it, no questions"? I don't believe so. I start with the reality that IF God is the Creator of all that is AND IF he in fact created the laws that govern modern science then he is certainly capable of working within those laws to his purpose.

Thus, atheists have told me that it is "illogical" that God stilled the cycle of rotation in the universe (stopped the sun). On the surface I agree with them. The complex factors that allow those gravitational orbits and the interrelationships between the planets seems to make such a thing impossible. If I as an example could somehow stop the earth in rotation, it would create a universal chaos. Yet isn't it logical that the One who set those laws of science into place can suspend those laws and still with the power of his creative word sustain the universe?

The other area is there are true areas in the scripture where "logic" may not apply. A question that I often see asked "why does God love us?" Even the Bible poses the awkwardness of that question - "Who are we?" Can we apply logic to love? Love had to be at the forefront of creation. Otherwises why would God have done it. Love loses logic. I may love someone who doesn't love me. Yet my love effects my mind and the things I do. It isn't logical. I did things when I was younger that looking back were nothing short of crazy. But I was in love. So what do we do with God's love? Things in the scripture are logical, they don't make sense. They simply are. Thus why would God give his Son's life to save me? I don't know - it isn't logical. Could I give my daughter's life to save another? I doubt it. Yet the Bible says that no matter how illogical it may seem, God did just that. The question is then no longer is it logical. The question becomes what sense can we make out of that great a love.

I am not sure whether or not this answers your question, but I have tried my best.

Pastor John

Answer 4

The Bible is logical. You can use logic. You can use reason. Now, belief, is faith. Faith of things not yet seen, hoped for. Where and whom have you studied with? It's best to study in an orthodox, Christian Bible Study group with an Elder who has a through knowledge of the Holy Bible. Where Christian essentials are taught. There is a lot of "False Preaching and Teaching." You must have discernment of the Holy Spirit[God's Spirit]. In order to have this gift, you must be indwelt. If your not a "true" believer, it may not be possible to be able to understand God's Holy Word. It's about belief in Jesus Christ as you Lord and Savior, giving-up one's "self." Giving your life to Christ. Trusting everything in Him. I pray you will find salvation and "grow in the grace and knowledge" of our Lord and Savior.

Answer 5

The reason why the Bible (to most) doesn't make sense, is that they try to bend the words to what they want the Bible to mean. They try to put their own logic into it and the Bible just becomes more confusing.

Like, I just asked a question to Christians if they have dropped everything and followed Jesus like he commanded...and the answers were varied, but a lot of them made their own logic for that answer...like, Jesus was only telling that to one person or we are told to drop everything, but that doesn't mean I have to drop everything...stuff like that.

People just try to make their own meaning of the Bible and that is why it is so confusing. If we just did what God and Jesus tells us to without blinding ourselves with material and worldly meanings, we wouldn't be so confused all the time.

If you can't understand what the Bible is saying, pray that God will show you what the meaning is in its simplest form and you won't be confused.

Answer 6

I am going to try to answer... but I don't know if I really can.

I believe what I believe because of my own personal experiences. When I read the bible, i reflect on it based on my own personal experiences....

there have been times when I have read one passage and come up with one meaning, and then read the same passage months later and found another meaning. it just depends where I am in my life...

I know that this doesn't make any logical since.... i can't explain it any other way.

Answer 7

You are not understanding the Bible because you have natural eyes, natural ears, and a natural heart. The Bible says it clearly in the book of Mathew. When people read the Bible and try to understand it, all that they will see is confusion. When you are reading the Bible, try to do a quick prayer asking God to give you a sense of understanding, anointing you with spiritual eyes to see what your natural eyes can't see, spiritual ears to hear what your natural ears can't hear and a heart to love and inscribe the word so where ever you go, it will be with you. That is the biggest problem that many people face when reading the Bible. People often forget to pray before reading the Bible, the Bible makes perfect sense.

Answer 8

It's hard to put logic and reasoning to a book that contains errors and untruths. However, there is a message there which speaks to the soul.

You should always keep an open mind and study other religions and philosophies as well. This will help you to discover what is true and right. All religions are in error, but each has a spark of the divine, because man has this spark. God manifests himself in all things, including religious thoughts. The things which do not ring true to the soul should be discarded.

Answer 9

You can, but you have to understand that human logic and understanding is not only imperfect, but incomplete, and God's logic and understanding is both perfect and whole. There are a lot of things in Scripture that we just are not able to understand because we only know in part. Non-believers and doubters always appeal to logic and intelligence for understanding, when they should seek wisdom instead, and knowledge is the BEGINNING of wisdom, not the reverse.

I know that's not a great answer, but I honestly don't know how to answer you better.

Answer 10

I don't rely on my own reasoning. I place my trust in God. God is my standard. Human opinions vs God's standard= that is a very easy choice to me.

Without the help of the Holy Spirit the Bible will not make very much sense to you. You have your free will. You do not have to accept the Savior.