For theist only: Problem of freewill?(revised)?

Question

1. If freewill is perfect: then why does sin(imperfect) come from it?
2. If freewill was designed to do that: then why does god have freewill?
3. If god doesn't have freewill: then why is he capable of loving and not doing sin?
4. Does god both have freewill and can love/can’t do sin: Then why didn't he created us that way?

Original version of No. 2 "If freewill is imperfect: then why does god have freewill?"

Answer 1

1)Freewill is neither perfect or imperfect, its what you make of it
2)We have freewill so that we can truly love and truly have charity
3)God has freewill, but he's perfect so there is no sin involved in His freewill
4)He created us the way that he did so we could (can) experience life, so that we could fight, laugh, cry, love etc

Those are all my opinions and i haven't really though about it until now.
Thanks you gave me a lot to think about dude

Paz de Cristo

Answer 2

Can I address the definition of freewill first? By this, you mean the ability to choose and act, correct? Then:

1. Sin no more comes from free will than righteousness does. Rather, sin is a RESULT of choosing that which is against the natural order or law.

2. God does have free will but He does not choose to break what He himself has established nor does He, in my experience and understanding, act out of anything other than His own nature.

3. Addressed in answer two but I reiterate. He loves because that's what He is and that is His nature. Sin is selfish, self seeking and against His nature. (An insight as to why He hates it so much?)

4. Purely speculation but I think he did. (Created in His image, right?) Temptation doesn't equal sin. Adam and Eve had a choice on whether to trust God or act on the lie that was presented to them. Jesus was faced with a similiar situation but he refused the lie and continued to trust in God.

Personally, I don't see much of a problem in regards to freewill. Only in the choices that are made.

Answer 3

You are a step ahead of yourself and cart before the horse as they say.

Sin is a condition (not an act) that comes from a persons nature. Choices, based on will, come from and give evidence of that nature.

Man was created a perfect spiritual being, a little lower than the angels, before he was every placed in a physical body. As souls, both spirit and body, Eve was seduced and Adam elected to go with her. At that point they lost perfect freedom and entered into the bondage of sin. The law was designed to show that fault in us and salvation was sent to redeem sinners.

So sin does not result from the act; although an act may add other violations of the law. If you murder someone that does not make you a sinner. You murder because you are a sinner to start with.

Men are free to choose but their nature directs the choice; often over and above conscience and good judgment. So what we are dealing with is not free will but the character of the agent that is exercising free will.

From the view I have expressed here I cannot really address your remaining questions. I can say that God is unfolding his nature for us to see and understand. Consider your last statement. If God is by nature a father then he needs children. If he is by nature a saviour he must, to show that nature, have something to save. If he is love then he must have something to love.

We were given life to express God's nature. How well are we doing?

Answer 4

1. Freewill is not perfect. God designed Adam and Eve to have both the ability to obey Him and the ability to disobey Him - so he gave them free will. In addition to giving them free will, he commanded them to do certain things and not do certain other things. But they chose to disobey Him.

2,3,4. If free will is not perfect, then God cannot be having an attribute that is imperfect, since He is incapable of imperfection. Do you see the subtlety here? Free will by design gives us a choice - and usually one is better than the other. But we do not know which choice to make until we are actually presented with it since we do not have knowledge of the future. God, on the other hand, knows the past, present and the future. So He does not deal with the same issues that we do like making choices and wrestling with whether they are good or bad choices. For Him, it is almost like there is no reason to make a choice - He will already have chosen the best one.

This can get very complicated very quickly. God already knows the past, present and the future - so one could question His sense of time. Well, time is not the same to Him as it is to us so He doesn't see things in terms of past, present, and future. I could go on further ... let me know if want to dig deeper.

Answer 5

1. Freewill is not perfect which is why there is sin.

2. God removed His freewill on us so that we can have freewill.

3.God is capable of loving because that's what He wants and to sin would mean He's imperfect.

4. He created us that way cos otherwise we wouldn't have freewill :\

i think you're thinking wayyyy too much into it.

Answer 6

FREE WILL
We start with free will. We choose what we do and how we do it. We choose how we act, how we react — and sometimes more importantly, not to act. Along the way, we learn that we get to deal with the consequences of our choices.
As we progress through this learning process, we develop a certain degree of understanding, an inner knowing — call it intuition — that guides us towards making better future choices. We begin to foresee the probable consequences of any contemplated choice and are able to avoid choices that knowingly lead to negative consequences. We learn to make ‘good’ decisions when confronted with ‘bad’ situations.
We also learn that, before we can move forward, we will have to deal with not only the mistakes we have made in the past, but also with the mistakes we are making in the present as well. We learn moderation. We learn about compromise and consensus. We achieve an understanding that it is only after the needs of our spiritual selves and the greater good have been met that we should make choices to satisfy our own wants and desires We begin to achieve a balance between our physical and spiritual selves. We find that we are on a path to true spiritual wisdom, we are walking the Good Red Road.
Throughout this process, teachers come into our lives that help us expand our knowledge, gain a deeper understanding and advance further towards wisdom. Our free-will choices will determine both the teachers and the lessons we encounter on the Red Road, so, bear this mind — In the physical world, opposites attract; in the spiritual world, like attracts like.
If our choices are made for the benefit of our own ego or physical self without consideration of the consequences of those choices, then the teachers (and thus the teachings) we attract will not come in a good way. The spiritual lessons they teach will be difficult, and often times negative. The object lesson will be, more often than not, what not to do and how not to do it.
We may find ourselves trapped in a cycle of being unable to make good decisions. Again and again we will be sent back to the very beginning, repeatedly offered a multitude of similar situations and events. Each time, we are being afforded an opportunity to make different choices and experience different outcomes. In short, we are being gifted with many ’second-chances’ to learn from our past mistakes, in order to break from spiritual stagnation.
But, if our choices are made for the benefit of the greater good or spiritual self while minimizing negative consequences for all involved, then the teachers will come in a good way. The spiritual lessons will be much easier because we have already learned how to avoid the traps laid by our own egoself. The teachers that come will be able to help us to proceed along the Good Red Road, rather than just working towards helping us to get on to it.
Just remember this, the path we take, the choices we make, the lessons we confront and the results we attain are all ultimately of our own choosing.


Wahoo!!!

Answer 7

1. Perhaps you have an imperfect understanding of perfect. Perfection of any person or thing is relative, not absolute. Only God is perfect in the absolute sense. "A thing is 'perfect' according to, or in relation to, the purpose or end for which it is appointed by its designer or producer, or the use to which it is to be put by its receiver or user." So the inherent meaning of perfection requires that there be someone who decides when “completion” has been reached, what the standards of excellence are, what requirements are to be satisfied, and what details are essential. Sin (imperfection) simply means somebody missed the mark - the bar. They fell short of God's requirements. So free will is the ability to choose. Obviously since there is room for choice, there is room to choose badly or wrongly.

2. I'm not sure I understand this question. If free will is designed to do what? Produce sin? Free will is not designed to produce sin. Free will is designed to give one the ability to choose. It does just that.

3. God does have free will.

4. Yes, God has free will. Yes he can and does love. No he cannot sin. He cannot go against himself and he is perfect in the absolute sense.

5. He did not create man perfect in the absolute sense but he did create man perfect. That is to say, when he was done with creating man, man met the standards of excellence He set. But when man disobeyed, he fell short of that standard. He missed the mark - for that is what sin is - to miss the mark. Having done so, he became imperfect.

Sin does not come from free will. Sin comes from the bad choice. If there were no free will, there would be no wickedness. But if there were no free will, we would be robots. Free will necessitates choice and as long as there is choice there is the option to choose wrong.

But to say that a perfect person cannot do wrong is to say that an imperfect person cannot do right. But that is not so, is it? As imperfect people, don't we choose to do right lots of times? The vast majority of us choose not to maim and torture other humans, right? For most of us, that turns our stomach. Yet we are imperfect.

Usually the confusion lies in the fact that most people do not know how to reconcile free will with a God of love who allows wickedness. In truth, there is a perfectly reasonable and satisfactory explanation for why God is temporarily allowing such but most people are unaware of it, that is all.

Hannah J Paul

Answer 8

Adam was created as a perfect man and Eve a perfect woman. Part of their perfection was their total trust In God’s perfect wisdom. You see you can have freewill turbocharged by God’s wisdom. Or you can have freewill “without” God’s wisdom which is hopelessly flawed and produces what we now have in the world, wars, disease, starvation, insanity etc. Even in the midst of humanity’s decision to try and out-wisdom God, God has still extended His hand to us to help us mend our society. How does humanity respond to Him? On this RS site you will get a snapshot of what transpired in the Garden of Eden, over and over and over again. God help us.

Answer 9

1. sin derives from the catholic religion... meaning against the church

2. human concept of god evolved from the catholic church teachings.... the catholic church originated at a time when the roman emperor considered himself god and all their teachings and rules still reflect that concept... today's roman emperor is called the pope.

3. the pope has a public persona to protect, but karma has a way of showing his cards... for instance today's pope is a former Nazi soldier... that is called an omen... that along with during his reign the truth of "god" being revealed, that is called nature fighting back.

4. god is the pope acting like the wizard of oz... once we get that into perspective, things will start making sense... like why religions always begin in a blood bath.

Answer 10

You're confused. Free will is free will. It's FREE to be either perfect or imperfect as you choose. God chose to be perfectly Good. Men chose loving knowledge over loving and obeying God.
God created us with free will so that we can freely CHOOSE to love Him. If you don't want to, that's okay. But there really isn't much incentive to turn from Him. And since Satan is more powerful than men, without God's protection, those who have turned from Him are vulnerable to him.