Question for Jehovah's Witnesses?

Question

Jn 1:3 says that Jesus created "all things", but in Isa 44:24, God says that he "by myself created the heavens and the earth" and asks the question "Who was with me?" when the heavens and the earth were created. How can this be since if Jesus had been created by God, then he would have been with God when everything else was created?

HannahJPaul..you should continue to read the next verse..16..says..For by him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities, all things were created by him and for him. 17..He is before all things, and in him all things hold together..

Being called firstborn of creation simply means..just as the firstborn son had certain privileges and right in the Biblical world, so also Christ has certain rights in relation to all creation..priority, preeminence and sovereignty.

Fuzzy..I have to wonder what Bible you are reading..
My Bible says in Rev. 3:14 "To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of Gods' creation.

This is not saying that he was the firstborn of creation.

Hanna J. Paul..I realize that the NWT has inserted the word "other" many times to support that belief. But..what exactly OTHER things did Christ create? And how do you explain the scripture that says God alone created the heaven and the earth.?

Answer 1

The context here assists us in recognizing the issue involved: Jehovah the true God versus the gods of the nations. It is a test of godship. Jehovah lays his credentials out; his resume, as it were, compared to that of the useless gods of the nations. The national gods cannot foretell the future; Jehovah can. The national gods cannot snatch Israel from Jehovah’s hand because Jehovah can deliver his people. The national gods cannot make the word of their false prophets come true. Jehovah can both tell the future and make it come to pass. Thus, Jehovah prophesies:

“This is what Jehovah has said, your Repurchaser and the Former of you from the belly: ‘I, Jehovah, am doing everything, stretching out the heavens by myself, laying out the earth. Who was with me? I am frustrating the signs of the empty talkers, and I am the One that makes diviners themselves act crazily; the One turning wise men backwards, and the One that turns even their knowledge into foolishness; the One making the word of his servant come true, and the One that carries out completely the counsel of his own messengers; the One saying of Jerusalem, “She will be inhabited,” and of the cities of Judah, “They will be rebuilt, and her desolated places I shall raise up”; the One saying to the watery deep, “Be evaporated; and all your rivers I shall dry up.”’” Isa. 44:24-27.

Jehovah, who used Babylon to punish Israel by sending them off into captivity, means to deliver them from that same world power by means of Cyrus. It all came to pass. This is not discussing the creation of the universe.

As for the time period of creation, Jesus himself is the first born of creation - the first thing created by God. Colossians 1:15. After being created, he himself came to be by his Father's side as a master worker. Proverbs 8:22-31.

Hannah J Paul

ADDITIONAL:

Yes, ABC, I realize that many say that “first-born” here means prime, most excellent, preeminent; most distinguished; thus Christ would be understood to be, not part of creation, but just the most distinguished in relation to all who were created. But if this is true, and the Trinity doctrine is true, how come the Father and the holy spirit are not also said to be the firstborn of all creation? Scripture applies this expression only to the Son. What is the normal customary meaning of “firstborn”? The eldest in a family. Here too, it shows that Jesus is the eldest in God’s family of sons. Before we read “first born of” in Colossians, the expression occurs over 30 times in the Bible. Each time it is applied to living creatures the same meaning attaches — the firstborn is part of the group. “The firstborn of Israel” is one of the sons of Israel; “the firstborn of Pharaoh” is one of Pharaoh’s family; “the firstborn of beast” are themselves animals. So why are some moved to attach a different meaning to it at Colossians 1:15? Is it Bible usage elsewhere or is it a belief they already have and for which they seek support?

At Colossians 1:16, 17, when we read “in him all things were created . . . all things were created through him and for him”, the Greek word here rendered “all things” is pan′ta, an inflected form of pas. At Luke 13:2, the Revised Standard renders this “all . . . other”; the Jersualem Bible reads “any other”; the New English says “anyone else.” In accord with everything else that the Bible says regarding God’s Son, New World Translation assigns the same meaning to pan′ta at Colossians 1:16, 17 so that it reads, in part, “by means of him all other things were created . . . All other things have been created through him and for him.” Thus he is shown to be a created being, part of the creation produced by God.

Hannah

Answer 2

This question is not for one group alone.

You don't read the Bible much do you? Rev 3:14 shows Christ to be God's first creation. He is also as Colossians shows "the firstborn of all creation" and all things came to be through Christ. This is repeated many times. In Proverbs chapter eight we see this being being portrayed as God's workmaster.

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These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God: (ASV)
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Have you not read
Col 1:15-17, 15who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him; 17and he is before all things, and in him all things (1) consist.

Answer 3

I'd be more curious as to which Bible you are using.

"Fuzzy..I have to wonder what Bible you are reading..
My Bible says in Rev. 3:14 "To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of Gods' creation.



Rev 3:14

(ASV) And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God:

(BBE) And to the angel of the church in Laodicea say: These things says the true and certain witness, the head of God's new order:

(ISV) "To the messenger of the church in Laodicea, write: 'The Amen, the witness who is faithful and true, the beginning of God's creation, says this:

(KJV+) And2532 unto the3588 angel32 of the3588 church1577 of the Laodiceans2994 write;1125 These things3592 saith3004 the3588 Amen,281 the3588 faithful4103 and2532 true228 witness,3144 the3588 beginning746 of the3588 creation2937 of God;2316

(KJVA) And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

(LITV) And to the angel of the assembly of Laodicea, write: These things says the Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Head of the creation of God:

(YLT) `And to the messenger of the assembly of the Laodiceans write: These things saith the Amen, the witness--the faithful and true--the chief of the creation of God;

Answer 4

The Greek word translated as 'by' in the KJV, literally means 'channel' and not source. #1223

The letter came by messenger, does not mean the messenger is the source of the letter, but the means by which the letter came.

Jesus is the messenger who brought creation, not the source of the creation.

At Gen 1:2 which most bibles say “ the (S)spirit* of God” was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters. The NRSV says in the footnote “the wind of God” * “And . . . active force (spirit).” Heb., weru´ach. Besides being translated “spirit,” ru´ach is also translated “wind” and by other words that denote an invisible active force.”

This agrees with Psalm 33:6 that says: “By the word of Jehovah the heavens themselves were made, and by the spirit (breath, KJV) of his mouth all their army.”


Oxford Bible Commentary: (quote)

“Jehovah (YHWH) is the God, throughout the OT as the God who created the world.”

“But all our texts imply or affirm that for Israel, there can in the end be only Jehovah (YHWH).”

“(Gen 1:1 – 2:4c) in the OT there is only one God”

“(Deut 6:4) The audience is being admonished and confesses that Israel stands in an exclusive relationship with Jehovah. This excludes the worship of any other deities, as well as a consort of Jehovah.”

(unquote)

.

Answer 5

I'm confused about you interpretation of Jn 1:3., but in Isa I think he was emphasizing that he was the boss, meaning gets lost in translation. in Genesis some where between 1:25 and 26, he got some company because at 26 he says, "Let us... The New KJV capitalizes Us and Our in the same verse. Don't know why.

Answer 6

According to the King James Bible
John 1
14And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten of a father, full of grace and truth. (Jesus Gods only begotten son)
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (Jesus, Gods only begotten son, was given by his Father, God)
1 John 4:9
In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. (God SENT his only begotten Son)
Colossians 1:15
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: (Jesus The image of God (not God himself) AND the firstborn)
John 1:18
God no one hath ever seen; the only begotten Son, who is on the bosom of the Father -- he did declare (Unlike God, many persons did see Jesus.)