What is the difference between Varnashram Dharma and modern day caste system?

Question

Varnashram dharma as described in the Bhagavad Gita is described as a beautiful organized human society where people live in harmony and peace.

How did the caste brahmins let it go out of hand or where did the perversion of the caste system come from?

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, who was incarnated as God Himself Krishna, used to embrace the untouchables and He glorified Haridas Thakur as the Namacharya or teacher of the Holy name.

Haridas Thakur was considered an outcast and muslim by hindus.

But Sri Caitanya loved him so much that when Haridas Thakur died, Sri Caitanya carried his body and wept. He said that now the ocean is a great holy place because Haridas Thakur bathed there.

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu preached that ANYONE including animals can have a chance to love God.

Answer 1

you said it- the caste system mentioned in the vedas varnashram dharma, was a beautiful organized system meant for the peace, harmony and prosperity of the people.

from what I have understood it means that some types of people are inclined and have qualities for certain categories of status and works. In previous ages, both birth and mainly qualities showed which caste you are from.

Here is a quick look at the four main caste groups

There is brahman class which is teacher class... they are considered the highest class, they are intelligent etc. they have many rules of cleanliness, and high knowledge. They are supposed to be humble, and even tempered, wise, and peaceful.

then there is the Kshatriya class. This class is the administrative king/queen warrior class. They protect the country, rule, etc. they are said to be temperamental, noble, generous, and just. (they also often become corrupted by their power, which is why they are to take counsel from the brahman class.)

Then there is the Vaishya class. These are mercantile people, or agricultural people. They are the land owners, shop owners etc. They are said to be very crafty and business like, and are never quite satisfied with what they have. (so they are figuring out ways to make the shop increase profits etc)

Then there is the Sudras. These are the laboring people. They also are the entertainers- musicians etc. the sudras are said to be less intelligent but honest and satisfied.


The modern problems with caste system came when people took the title of the caste without being qualified for it, and simply born into that type of family.

The reason for that problem is that in this present age, people are not just born into a caste anymore, in Kali yuga it depends on your own propensity what you are. Also it is stated in scripture that in Kali yuga all people are equal to sudras in status.

This means we're all equal in this age, and only what you do in this lifetime makes u different not which family you were born to.
Nowadays we can see how some people (esp born of the much higher castes) have a lot of scorn and disdain for the sudra caste. (considered the low caste) But this means that they are not humble, and even tempered and other good qualities. (so how can they be high caste?)

I heard something interesting a while ago, although I cannot authenticate the source (don't remember) It kind of pertains to why we cannot use caste system and outcaste all these things consistently in this age.

It was that in the satya yug, the people were separated the good and bad by nations. In the next age, the good and bad were separated by families. The third age, people were separated good and evil by the individual person, but in Kaliyug in the very same person good and evil is there within them.

Anyways, I think this is why the caste system doesn't work well in Kali yuga (the present age- the iron age) and why Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu pretty much abolished it.

and I would be considered an out caste from mlecha lineage, so I am very glad that He did that.
Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu ki jaya!
:-)

Answer 2

The modern day so called caste is based on entirely on birth -this is because in the old days it was very likely that someone would take up the caste to which he or she was born into--but it is not the case in kali yuga where every one is said to be sudra or at the very most a mixture - therefore caste must be judged by qualities and not by birth--
so what would you call Lord Parasuram? Bramin or kasatriya? He was known as the greatest warrior yet he was born as a bramin and had very gentle qualities -still his qualities as a warrior came out supreme--- now if a bramin does not show good qualities of learning, tolerance , humility, austerity, devoted to the Lord etc. but rather he shows tamasic qualities such as pride, anger, greed, fighting spirit rather than peaceful -such a person should not be accepted as a bramin though born in brahman family--also if a person -though born in a yavana family develops saintly character--due to association with pure sadus -such a person should be accepted as even higher that a braman and one should be careful to respect all -what to speak of a person with saintly qualities--

Answer 3

There are two words in Varnaashramam---Varnam+ Aashramam =Varnaashramam -Ashramam-there are four -Brahmacharyam(celebacy during education)-Grahastham(Graham+Hastham=Grahastham =Taking/Gripping in the hands the family life with wife and children---Vaanapprastham=When the children are grown up -reaching about 21 years-right from the Emperor to an ordinary farmer-handing over the administration of Estates to children and both Parents going to nearby safe forest or green lands and lead a life of minimum requirements and spending most of the time in Prayers---Sanyasam=Ascetic life.An ascetic should not own any property and he should live only on the food the villagers give-in return he should do his service of guiding the villagers on Scriptures(Vedam=Sruthi) and other Religious Litreature(Smrthi) like srimath Bhagavatham,Ramaayanam, Siva Puraanam,.Bhagavad geetha etc.an Ascetic should not live ina village for more than 3 nights.Even in Buddhism same rule.

Varnam=Caste System---It is a Social Order(Mostly created by Manu a king in "Manu's Smrthi"-as it is clear NOT Sruthi=Vedam)and therefore it is not a not Religious Order.-based on the Profession of the individual--some names are in Sanskrit others are in local Vernaculars--Sanskrit;-Kulal=potter---Karmar=Blacksmith---Punchishta/ Nishaada/ Svapathi=Hunters of different kinds-hunting using different contrivances like bird nets,or weapons/or fishermen--etc etc-a long list.They themselves preserved their own caste system for Protection of their family and to pass on their Technical knowledge to their Children.Even today they marry within their caste onl in arranged marriages -Love affair is different.
sri.Kausika by birth a warrior(Kshatriya) but by his profession he bacame a Brahmin(Brahma Rishi Viswamitra--a number of examples are there)

Many saints like Acharyas sarva sri. Sankara--Raamaanuja--Madwa-Ragavendra --many centuries before sri Krishna Chaitanya have shown a lot of love, affection,benevolence to other caste people.Please read Acharya sri.sankara's "Maanishaa Panchakam" and Sri.Raamanuja's bio-graphy and sri.Ragavendra's relatonship with Kanaka Das.sri.Vyasa Bhagavan's all Puranas are told to highly educated people by sri.Sootha Pauraanica only
Kulal=Potter--Karmar=Blacksmith -Punchishta are missing in the main post

Answer 4

In the Vedic Varnashram Dharma you were not born into a "caste". You went into the function of society (varnashrama dharma) which best suited your tendencies, and there is no Vedic "untouchable" caste. It later devolved as a result of rich ruling classes into a hereditary system of "castes" that one was born into regardless of what talents one was born with.

There are common themes for many of the schools within Hinduism that can be found in the Vedic scriptures, and such works as the Bhagavad Gita. Remember yoga originated out of Hinduism. Most people only know the physical forms of yoga, called hatha, but those techniques area actually preparatory techniques for the higher practices of the spiritual types of yoga such as jnana, karma, and bhakti. You can practice a form of hatha but it helps to be grounded and centered in some sense in the higher forms of yoga or all you are doing is stretching. In the highest practices of yoga, they all lead to complete bhakti - surrender.

If you are interested in the yoga teachings of Lord Krishna, then one thing you may want to focus on to learn and practice in a more nonsectarian manner is the Uddhava Gita. The Uddhava Gita is a summation of the essence of the Bhagavad Gita (and the simplest and most direct practice of yoga), and so it is eminently suitable for nonsectarian, universal teaching which is the essence of Hinduism.

Here is a short summation of the Uddhava Gita which is found in the Srimad Bhagavatam (also known as Bhagavata Purana) 11.7:

EPILOGUE - LORD KRISHNA'S LAST SERMON

At the end of another long sermon comprising of more than one thousand verses, disciple Uddhava said: "O Lord Krishna, I think the pursuit of God as You narrated to Arjuna (in the Bhagavad Gita), and now to me, is very difficult indeed, for most people; because it entails control of unruly senses. Please tell me a short, simple, and easy way to God-realization." Lord Krishna upon Uddhava's request gave the essentials of Self-realization as follows:

· Do your duty, to the best of your ability, for Me without worrying about the outcome.

· Remember Me at all times. (Note that this is the point of chanting things like the mahamantra - Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Kare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare which is often chanted in kirtan or a variation of it. The whole point of kirtan and mantra is remembrance.)

· Perceive that God is within every living being. Mentally bow down to all beings and treat all beings equally.

· Perceive through the activities of mind, senses, breathing, and emotions that the power of God is within you at all times, and is constantly doing all the work using you as a mere instrument and a trustee.

I recommend the International Gita Society as they are nonsectarian, offer affordable translations of the Bhagavad Gita with commentary, and can help teach you the basics without having to spend a lot of money or submit to some guru you know nothing about:

http://www.gita-society.com/

http://www.gitainternational.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Gita_Society

They also have an online Gita study and discussion forum:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/

I hope these are helpful! Namaste!

Answer 5

redo the question please, what is caste system? Or do a site search and select what you don't understand for the redo question?

Answer 6

huh?