Do you think God really promotes submissiveness?

Question

It seems like the Bible glorifies submissive behavior especially to the ruling government. Does this sheeple mentality apply if the ruling establishment is fundamentally corrupt and ruthless. Should we just lie down and let them have their way and wait for the G-man to intervene? Or should we stand up for our beliefs and our freedom by participating in civil disobedience? It seems like the Israelites/Early Christians were always enslaved and or persecuted. It's not that I condone violence or lawlessness. Just seems like God would want us to solve some of our own problems and assert our right to live free.

Answer 1

No, not really. Jesus attacked people in the Temple with a weapon. Jesus told the Apostles to sell their clothes and buy a sword. Peter carried a sword when he was with Jesus.

The issue is witnessing. The unsaved have faith in their cultural customs and their laws. If you "break" those customs or laws then you are a "bad guy" and Christianity must be "bad" so Christians are encouraged to follow the laws and customs so they are blameless when witnessing.

Christians are not under the law, they are not punished for breaking God's law. Christians screw up, repent, learn and are forgiven. No punishment.

Of course, no repentance, no learning, no forgiveness.

Usually I try and be nice to people, but, when some jerk thinks they can push me around because Christians "can't fight back", I remind them that Peter felt confident enough about fighting back that he cut a person's ear off with a sword right in front of Jesus. Swords out, ears cut.

Of course losers sometimes stalk me, sometimes on the web, sometimes physically. Ten years ago I beat some big guy, dressed like a biker and driving a cage, bloody because he physically attacked me. It happens.

I once got tossed in a cell with a convicted murderer who had a tattoo of a crucifix on his chest, upside down. He left that cell with a whole different idea of God and Christians.

God puts me where he needs me. Sometimes it is healing a child and sometimes it is getting bloody with a loser.

Jesus Christ was the toughest man to ever walk this planet. He got beaten bloody, tortured and killed. Then the guy took a nap and walked home.

Sure, he could have wiped up the floor with them, and he would have. Then someone else would have tried him out, nations, armies.

It just made it all the better to show some people that the worst the could do was nothing at all to God.

PS: The post below mine is really good in many ways. The only submissiveness is to God and God alone. I answered your question about submissiveness to men, not about God.

Answer 2

The way I look at it, since I live in the USA; I get a say in who becomes a member of this government. So, I am standing up for my faith and beliefs. Our constitution gives us the right to vote on issues in our country and elect members within our government.

We are not going to be able to control or influence everything that goes on within the structure of our government or those in office. I do solve a great deal of my own problems, however being a part of civil disobedience; does not guarantee a solution to problems -- this kind of action could make things worse -- possibly starting a "civil war".

I like to solve the problems I DO have control over and leave the rest to G-d. After all those 'corrupt and ruthless' officials will have to answer to Him, for all their mistakes.

Let's look at it this way::

What do you think would happen if every person in the USA started "standing up for 'their' beliefs and freedoms" and "participated in civil disobedience" every time 'they' thought that the government was "fundamentally corrupt and ruthless"? Would that help or harm our rights and freedoms?

Personally, I think that would create more problems and do more harm than good; to the stability of this nation.

And Finally:

You might know about G-d and His desires for those who believe in Him, but those who know Him trust that no matter what He is always in control. So, why worry, get upset, or stress about things out of our control? This is not (as you put it "sheeple mentality") it is an acceptance of the fact that we are not and can't be in control of everything -- all of the time. Nor can we solve 'all' the problems in this world, our government, local community, or neighborhood.

Answer 3

I agree with you. Here are few additional points you may already know as to why more people didn't act up:

1. Millions of people believe the Bible to be the word of God, not the word of the guys of the ruling government in Bible times. And, well, they think God has a purpose for everything and does no wrong.

2. People who did stand up in Bible times were killed. There are many stories in the Bible where this happened. They were used as examples to the masses as to why someone should not challenge the King. Can't remember any book/chapter/verse offhand, but I know there are a bunch of examples during King Solomon's reign. You can start reading there for examples.

3. Jesus acted up in the way you mention. Disregarding his claim to be the Son of God for a moment, you will notice that he challenged the authority of the Levite priests on many levels. He felt it wrong for the rich priests to be collecting money from poor people. He felt the Priests had too much power. Many people think the Levite priests had Jesus crucified, not because of his claim to be the Son of God, but because he was upsetting their power and riches.

Jews who did not believe Jesus to be the Son of God, yet thought the priests had too much power, weren't going to stand up the priests after seeing the cruxifiction.

(And, 1500 years later, Martin Luther made the same claims against the Pope and Catholic hierarchy, sans claims that he was the Son of God.)

4. The earliest Christians did indeed assert their right to live free. Read the New Testament. All books past the first four Gospels are letters (written mostly by Paul) to towns and villages offering cheerleading (in addition to religious fervor) to the earliest Christians. And, well, as you know, Christians eventually did achieve the right to worship openly without fear of being fed to the lions.

In conclusion, masses won't act up until a leader tells them to. Most of the folks who raised their heads a bit to act up had their heads chopped off (so to speak).

It's the same reason many modern women and Blacks don't stand up for equal pay (they would rather be underpaid than unemployed). Or, why many homos stay in the closet (they would rather not be lynched).

Answer 4

If Christians were to live the way that God wants them to, what would become of their "masters." Perhaps following after the Christian lifestyle causes change in the environment about us. There are many examples of this in the Bible. Jesus did not lead a revolt, but his life and death certainly caused one upon the human race. Often I wonder about America; did the slave masters help the slaves to freedom when they gave them Christianity?

Ofcourse, God can intervene whenever he wants, and he can raise up leaders like Moses or apostles or school teachers or ministers or you!

Answer 5

Yes we really do.

There is a set created order to be followed. for children, women, parents, and even us as believers and citizens.

Citizenry gets tricky but I dont think complicated beyond understanding by any means. We are under normal circumstances to respect the law of the land because they basically reflect Gods law at heart; dont murder, dont steal, etc.

However if you find yourself in say a power structure like Hamas that has the support of what we loosely call govt, and they are off killing jews and Christians, obviously that is not within Christian character to do such things. Daniels 3 freinds in Ezekial had a similiar problem when they were ordered to worship a statue.

The reason I say its tricky is that we are both citizens of whatever country we are pledged to, but our first alliance is to God. Or we couldve very well been a slave and dont have such privelidges! But the point is we are to obey God first with respect to whatever power structure you find yourself in.

Obviously if we find that our govt, lets say England, was oppressive and there are other leaders more readily willing to institute a better reperesentative of Gods law like George Washington, it would be on the concious of any Christian to reject what is oppressive and favor that which is more in keeping with Gods law. Remember that God warned us MANY times not to oppress the poor and if we fight for and support a nation that is oppressive, we are direcnty or indirectly aiding the oppression of the meek.

Answer 6

its all in a balance. a christian's example is Christ. He was submissive to God but that didn't mean He was whipped. christians are only to be submissive when it doesn't go against God's Word. does that mean we are doormats? no. Christ Himself did things like overturn the tables in the temple in a fit of righteous anger and he frequently rebuked the religious leaders of the day. the US government DOES provide lawful and peaceful ways to stand up for your beliefs. I'm sure other governments do too.

Answer 7

we should not be submissive if the government is corrupt. God would not intervene, just look at Iraq, Saddam was, lets face it, evil, he killed lots of Innocent people to test bio/chemical weapons and he also tortured Meany people to death. Not until other people steeped in was he stopped, god had nothing to do with it.

Answer 8

I think people promote submission for their own reasons in the name of religion. I think the "whole women are the evil sex" came about by woman-hating priests. I think the bible was made to made people become the sort of society that Bible editors wanted to see. I don't think that the real God sees people as mindless, weak or evil.

Answer 9

Submissiveness is not the right word. It doesn't fit the Father Child relationship.

A father wants to be a good guide for the child, so I don't think of that as submission.

Answer 10

of course no,but religions have ups and downs,with time corresponding with political interesses,real believersare rare