Mormons, can we study the scriptures for a minute?

Question

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/111

I'm a little bit confused by this. The heading says that this is in Salem, Massachusetts and they were going to get a lot of money. The actual scripture details it out pretty clearly.

Did they ever get this? What exactly happened? Was this a false prophecy? Was Joseph just on another treasure hunt?

Is this scripture considered by Mormons to be actual word of God? Do you live by this scripture in your daily life?

Answer 1

Yes, this scripture is considered by Mormons to be the actual word of God. I don't suppose we all need to use it every day of our lives, but it does come in handy at times. See here for an example... http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.b12f9d18fae655bb69095bd3e44916a0/?vgnextoid=21bc9fbee98db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=95f93d23df3bb010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1

Actually, the heading says "Hearing that a large amount of money would be available to them in Salem..." This is not indicating that they went to Salem because of a prophesy... especially when you read verse 1:

"I, the Lord your God, am not displeased with your coming this journey, notwithstanding your follies."

This seems to me that their reasons for undertaking the journey were foolish (ie they went in response to hearsay, because they were desperate to pay their debts).

However, the Lord was "not displeased" because he could still make their journey serve his purposes.

Did they ever get the "treasures" and "gold and silver" that was prophesied in verses 2 and 4?

Verse 2 says:

"I have much treasure in this city for you, for the benefit of Zion, and many people in this city, whom I will gather out in due time for the benefit of Zion, through your instrumentality."

This "treasure" seems to refer to conversions (eternal treasures)... Verses 9 and 10 seem to confirm this:

"...And inquire diligently concerning the more ancient inhabitants and founders of this city;
"For there are more treasures than one for you in this city."

So it seems to be referring to treasures of knowledge, as well as new converts?

Verse 4, however, DOES refer to money - ie gold and silver. Verse 4 is the only part of the prophesy that actually says that they will receive monetary riches from Salem.

"4 And it shall come to pass in due time that I will give this city into your hands, that you shall have power over it, insomuch that they shall not [make you ashamed]; and its wealth pertaining to gold and silver shall be yours."

If you read the footnotes, "give this city" refers to them obtaining converts in the city.

When one receives a prophesy, often the first interpretation that comes to mind is not the one that was meant.

Note that the verse begins "it shall come to pass in due time"...

You could well say, that the gold and silver of Salem are now in the hands of the Church, in that through the converts in those parts, tithing is now being received from Salem. So the prophesy has been fulfilled. Of course, it says in the heading:

"When it became apparent that no money was to be forthcoming, they returned to Kirtland."

So it's plain for all LDS to see that the prophet, etc, were mistaken in their first interpretation of the revelation.

Verse 6 says:
"Concern not yourselves about your debts, for I will give you power to pay them."

This is not a promise that the Lord would pay their debts at Salem, but a promise of comfort that they should not worry about their debts at that time. As you now know, all debts of the church were paid during Lorenzo Snow's years as President of the church.

The prophecies in this scripture were abundantly fulfilled, in the "due time of the Lord" and the scriptures (and all things) continue to "work together for good to them that love God" (Romans 8:28).

Answer 2

Cheese and Rice, you've obviously got an ax to grind with the church from your stream of other posts, but I'll bite anyway, assuming that you're not just being a self-righteous smart-aleck.

We believe that this was a revelation given by God to a man who led our church when he sought guidance. Not just an answer to a prayer, but a verbose response meant to be dictated.

verse 4 is the one I suppose you are focusing on, and it is the most telling:

"And it shall come to pass in due time that I will give this city into your hands, that you shall have power over it, insomuch that they shall not discover your secret parts; and its wealth pertaining to gold and silver shall be yours. "

The church won a legal battle against the state of Massachusetts revolving around temple construction on a site 15 miles from Salem. During the trial, it was revealed that one of the plaintiffs alluded to "gutting the place to see their secrets" if they won and the temple was torn down before it was completed. Financial restitution (read: gold and silver) was given to the church and attorney fees were paid for by the state of Massachusetts.

The people of the area had to accept the LDS control of that land and what they wanted to do with it.

False prophecy? Not so much.
Zealotry induces a lack of research, unneeded hatred and prejudice. Hardly a philosophy on which to engage your brothers and sisters.

Answer 3

Not the right time, or else conditions changed. Free agency is an interesting thing, by the way. Answer to prayers might be "a," "b," "c," "choose on your own" or "More information is coming" or "not the right time to choose or even worry about choosing." Answers to why prophecies do or don't work include: 1) Contingent on obedience 2) Contingent on timing 3) Contingent on none of the elements which make favorable conditions at this time moving out of place. That's all I have to say about that. Have a gummy bear.

Answer 4

Dude, lots of churches preach the concept that if you are chrsitian you will be rich, but the truth is, just because you get saved, does not mean (0r become a mormon) heaven will let you suddenly win the lottery or give you the numbers to win the lottery, its sad, just like some recently saved poeple think, now life will be easy for them, now that theyare saved, maybe Jo Smith thought this as well and if he prophecied this over himself, he could speak it on him, but alas, all was not well with him and his latter day saints.

Answer 5

Smith had incurred so much debt with the establishing United Order, building structures, organizing trades and trying to influence economics, he started throwing out 'wildcard' revelations in the hopes of getting some capital.

I submit that he really did think that by espousing his schemes as revelation, those who attempted to carry it out were convinced they were doing 'god's work'. If it didn't work as planned, it's their fault, or the right time has not come to pass yet.

In any aspect, it was Smith's method of controlling his environment, economics and underlings with a convenient scapegoat if plans went awry.

Answer 6

I'll take MumOf4's view of the scripture. She really put you in your place about understanding scripture. I hope these little exercises of yours are starting to fan out the flame of your disbelief. The Spirit of the Lord is confirming it's true. You know I need to remember to read the scriptures myself. I don't know them all, but I know it's true. There is no denying it.

Answer 7

D&C 111:2 I have much treasure in this city for you, for the benefit of Zion, and many people in this city, whom I will gather out in due time for the benefit of Zion, through your instrumentality.
3 Therefore, it is expedient that you should form aacquaintance with men in this city, as you shall be led, and as it shall be given you.
4 And it shall come to pass in due time that I will give this city into your hands, that you shall have power over it, insomuch that they shall not discover your secret parts; and its wealth pertaining to gold and silver shall be yours.

Verse 2: much treasure. This could be just about anything.

Verse 4: in due time. in WHO'S due time? How long is "due time"? Who's to say that this hasn't come to pass yet?

Answer 8

Hello. I'm not Mormon(thankfully), but I see a number of flaws here. One, they were looking for money, and they were in debt. 2 things which are VERY against scripture.
I just read the first paragraph there, and was amazed that the Mormons even agree with this.
I hope YOU do not consider the book of Mormon to be 'scripture'. It isn't.

Answer 9

Yawning...Frank you're funny and despicable at the same time...Repent.

Answer 10

Ha-ha...! You spellinated "MORONS" wronglike.