To those who doubt Jesus ' historicity Part 1?

Question

It seems dome disbelievers won't take alternative to their answers no matter how solid the evidence or open mided they claim. So I thought I would put up a proof one or two at a time ans see if you can ( with documentation disprove it all. So here is the beginning Dr James Strange( University of South Florida)has noted that after the fall of Jerusalem in Ad ( or CE) 70 priests were no longer needed in the temple so they were sent out to various places Arcahaeologists have found an Aramaic list describing the 24 "courses or families of priests and where they were relocated. One of those families were registered as being to the city of Nazareth. This was a city of apprix 60 acres with a population of about 480 people. I will be attempting to give more proofs later. Do you have the documentation to disagree or will you concede this one?

Arly, other than you began well you didn't add anything. I thought I would take several of the arguments others have had against Christianity and the historic Jesus and show documentation for it. My next question will cover another area I am disappointed thatyou could not give any addition to the discussion. But you have already made a choice without all the information. I am sorry to see that Good luck. I just thopught we should have fair play with proof I am sorry you don't feel that way.

This is becoming more interesting especially as wenow have the Islamic perspective. If anyone is interested to carry on some of these questions longer and deeper Please contact me by 360

This is becoming more interesting especially as wenow have the Islamic perspective. If anyone is interested to carry on some of these questions longer and deeper Please contact me by 360

Answer 1

I'm with you so I don't disagree.

Historical References to Jesus

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/mara.html

A Letter of Mara, Son of Serapion

Mara, son of Serapion, to Serapion, my son: peace.…..For what benefit did the Athenians obtain by putting Socrates to death, seeing that they received as retribution for it famine and pestilence? Or the people of Samos by the burning of Pythagoras, seeing that in one hour the. whole19 of their country was covered with sand? Or the Jews by the murder of their Wise King, seeing that from that very time their kingdom was driven away from them? For with justice did God grant a recompense to the wisdom of all three of them. For the Athenians died by famine; and the people of Samos were covered by the sea without remedy; and the Jews, brought to desolation and expelled from their kingdom, are driven away into Every land. Nay, Socrates did "not" die, because of Plato; nor yet Pythagoras, because of the statue of Hera; nor yet the Wise King, because of the new laws which he enacted.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/talmud.html

Here is what is written in Baraitha Bab. Sanhedrin 43a, probably second century:
On the eve of Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, "He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy. Any one who can say anything in his favour, let him come forward and plead on his behalf." But since nothing was brought forward in his favour he was hanged on the eve of the Passover! - Ulla retorted: Do you suppose that he was one for whom a defence could be made? Was he not a _Mesith_ [enticer], concerning him Scripture says, _Neither shalt though spare, neither shalt thou conceal him?_ With Yeshu however it was different, for he was connected with the government for royalty [i.e., influential]. Our Rabbis taught: Yeshu had five disciples, Matthai, Nakai, Nezer, Buni, and Todah.


http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/tacitus.html

The most famous passage in which Tacitus mentions Christianity is as follows (Annals 15.44):
Such indeed were the precautions of human wisdom. The next thing was to seek means of propitiating the gods, and recourse was had to the Sibylline books, by the direction of which prayers were offered to Vulcanus, Ceres, and Proserpina. Juno, too, was entreated by the matrons, first, in the Capitol, then on the nearest part of the coast, whence water was procured to sprinkle the fane and image of the goddess. And there were sacred banquets and nightly vigils celebrated by married women. But all human efforts, all the lavish gifts of the emperor, and the propitiations of the gods, did not banish the sinister belief that the conflagration was the result of an order.
Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired. Nero offered his gardens for the spectacle, and was exhibiting a show in the circus, while he mingled with the people in the dress of a charioteer or stood aloft on a car. Hence, even for criminals who deserved extreme and exemplary punishment, there arose a feeling of compassion; for it was not, as it seemed, for the public good, but to glut one man's cruelty, that they were being destroyed.

http://www.allabouthistory.org/josephus-and-christ-faq.htm

Josephus mentions Jesus in Antiquities, Book 18, chapter 3, paragraph 3 (this paragraph is so phenomenal, that scholars now debate the authenticity of some of the more "favorable" portions of this text):

"Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day."

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/jrthal.html

Julius Africanus quoting --Thallus (c. 50-75ad)

On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun. For the Hebrews celebrate the passover on the 14th day according to the moon, and the passion of our Savior falls on the day before the passover; but an eclipse of the sun takes place only when the moon comes under the sun. And it cannot happen at any other time but in the interval between the first day of the new moon and the last of the old, that is, at their junction: how then should an eclipse be supposed to happen when the moon is almost diametrically opposite the sun? Let opinion pass however; let it carry the majority with it; and let this portent of the world be deemed an eclipse of the sun, like others a portent only to the eye. Phlegon records that, in the time of Tiberius Caesar, at full moon, there was a full eclipse of the sun from the sixth hour to the ninth--manifestly that one of which we speak. But what has an eclipse in common with an earthquake, the rending rocks, and the resurrection of the dead, and so great a perturbation throughout the universe? Surely no such event as this is recorded for a long period. (XVIII.1)

http://www.provethebible.net/T2-Divin/D-0201.htm
Lucian, the Greek satirist, wrote this rather scathing attack in The Death of Peregrine circa AD 170:
The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day - the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account... You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed upon them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws.

Answer 2

Not convinced . How many messiahs do you think there were in those times ? the Islamics claim he went to Damascus ?
you think people rise from the dead ;never seen it and Used to work in the funeral business... claims made from second hand hearsay are not documentation. People lie for sundry reasons both political and other. The founding fathers of this USA rejected the idea of a divine messiah as fable and legend . when they went public with the bones of Christ it seem the names were so common place it would have been too easy to find one and use him as an example for political reason . And lastly why would an intelligent man die before his time rather than having the courage to live for the benefit of his followers thus setting an example other than suicide .
It takes no documentation to realise past the controversial and confusing attempts to convince rather than edify that if you take your plane off auto pilot god won't take over the controls and you will crash to your death . Is your god a god of life or just the same old same old god of death?
One more note people always talk of the cross they bear which we all get eventually anyway but refuse to consider the times spent enjoying life before the awe inspiring overwhelming god awful crucifixion ;instead of wearing crosses why not a hammer and saw ?no consession from me
I'll remain skeptical and just take it for what it's worth when possible the lessons of the life of jesus are best taken from an adult viewpoint rather than a child speaking of which ever wonder why jesus had no children ?
peace and happiness

Answer 3

What's really great is that scientist have been checking DNA from various tribes and families looking for direct blood lines to Aaron the first high priest and have found a bloodline that would be acceptable to the laws and Jewish leaders.
So the Temple can be and will be rebuilt and the sons of Aaron will offer sacrifice there again. Coming soon.
God Bless!

Answer 4

'God created the firmament to separate the waters above the firmament from the waters below the firmament.' This is unshakable proof that the authors of the Bible had no idea of how rain formed. They got everything else wrong, too.

Answer 5

Look up Jesus the "Nazerene" versus Jesus of Nazereth.

Answer 6

oh yeah. check this out.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=ApDCkNso0MAR1aMLnupF0orsy6IX?qid=20070726200540AAWwoRJ

Answer 7

PROPHET ISA
In many verses of the Glorious Qur'an Allah the Exalted denied the claim of the Christians that He has a son. A delegation from Nagran came to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). They began to talk about their claim about the Trinity, which is that Allah is three in one, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, with some disagreement among their sects. That is why Allah affirmed in many verses of the Qur'an that Jesus is a slave of Allah, whom He molded in the womb of his mother like any other of His creatures, and that He created him without a father, as He created Adam without a father or a mother.
Allah the Almighty said: Allah chose Adam, Noah, the family of Abraham and the family of Imran above the Alamin (mankind and jinns)(of their times). Offspring, one of theo other, and Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.
Remember when the wife of Imran said: "O my Lord! I have vowed to You what (the child that) is in my womb to be dedicated for Your services (free from all worldly work; to serve Your Place of worship), so accept this, from me. Verily, You are the All-Hearer, the All Knowing."
Then when she delivered her (child Mary), she said: "O my Lord! I have delivered a female child," and Allah knew better what she delivered, - "and the male is not like the female, and I have named her Mary, and I seek refuge with You (Allah) for her and for her offspring from Satan, the outcast."
So her Lord (Allah) accepted her with goodly acceptance. He made her grow in a good manner and put her under the care of Zechariah. Every time he entered Al-Mihrab (a praying place or a private room), he found her supplied with sustenance.
He said: "O Mary! From where have you got this?"
She said: "From Allah. Verily, Allah provides sustenance to whom He wills, without limit." (Ch 3:33-37 Quran)
Allah declared that He had elected Adam (pbuh) and the elite of his offspring who obey Allah. Then He specified the family of Abraham (pbuh), which includes the sons of Ishmael (pbuh), and the family of Imran, the father of Mary.
Muhammad Ibn Ishaaq stated that he was Imran Ibn Bashim, Ibn Amun, Ibn Misha, Ibn Hosqia, Ibn Ahriq, Ibn Mutham, Ibn Azazia, Ibn Amisa, Ibn Yamish, Ibn Ahrihu, Ibn Yazem, Ibn Yahfashat, Ibn Eisha, Ibn Iyam, Ibn Rahba am, Ibn David (Dawud).
Prophet Zakariyah's (pbuh) wife's sister had a daughter named Hannah. She was married to Imran, a leader of the Israelites. For many years, the couple remained childless. Whenever Hannah saw another woman with a child, her longing for a baby increased. Although years had passed, she never lost hope. She believed that one day Allah would bless her with a child, on whom she would shower all her motherly love.
She turned to the Lord of the heavens and the earth and pleaded with Him for a child. She would offer the child in the service of Allah's house, in the temple of Jerusalem. Allah granted her request. When she learned that she was pregnant, she was the happiest woman alive, and thanked Allah for His gift. Her overjoyed husband Imran also thanked Allah for His mercy.
However, while she was pregnant her husband passed away. Hannah wept bitterly. Alas, Imran did not live to see their child for whom they had so longed. She gave birth to a girl, and again turned to Allah in prayer: "O my Lord, I have delivered a female child," and the male is not like the female, and I have named her Mary, and I seek refuge with You (Allah) for her and her offspring from Satan, the outcast." (Ch 3:36 Quran)
Hannah had a big problem in reference to her promise to Allah, for females were not accepted into the temple, and she was very worried. Her sister's husband Zakariyah, comforted her, saying that Allah knew best what she had delivered and appreciated fully what she had offered in His service. She wrapped the baby in a shawl and handed it over to the temple elders. As the baby was a girl, the question of her guardianship posed a problem for the elders. This was a child of their late and beloved leader, and everyone was eager to take care of her. Zakariyah said to the elders: "I am the husband of her maternal aunt and her nearest relation in the temple; therefore, I will be more mindful of her than all of you."
As it was their custom to draw lots to solve disagreements, they followed this course. Each one was given a reed to throw into the river. They had agreed that whoever's reed remained afloat would be granted guardianship of the girl. All the reeds sank to the bottom except Zakariyah's. With this sign, they all surrendered to the will of Allah and made him the guardian.
To ensure that no one had access to Mary, Zakariyah built a separate room for her in the temple. As she grew up, she spent her time in devotion to Allah. Zakariyah visited her daily to see to her needs, and so it continued for many years. One day, he was surprised to find fresh fruit, which was out of season in her room. As he was the only person who could enter her room, he asked her how the fruit got there. She replied that these provisions were from Allah, as He gives to whom He wills. Zakariyah understood by this that Allah had raised Mary's status above that of other women.
Thereafter, Zakariyah spent more time with her, teaching and guiding her. Mary grew to be a devotee of Allah, glorifying Him day and night.
Ali Ibn Abi Talib narrated that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said: "The best of the world's women is Mary (in her lifetime), and the best of the world's women is Khadija (in her lifetime)." (Sahih Al-Bukhari)
Abu Musa Al-Ashari also narrated that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said: "May among men attained perfection but among women none attained perfection except Mary the daughter of Imran, and Asiya the wife of Pharaoh, and the superiority of Aisha to other women is like the superiority of Tharid (an Arabic dish) to other meals."

While Mary was praying in her temple, an angel in the form of a man appeared before her. Filled with terror, she tried to flee, praying: "Verily! I seek refuge with the Most Beneficent (Allah) from you, if you do fear Allah."