Creating someone you know will sin when you don't have to is equivalent to creating sin. Your thoughts?

Question

It just uses an intermediate tool. It's like driving your car. Pushing the accelerator when you know it will make the car go is the same as making the car go.

Yes, free will, but God KNOWS what you will choose to do and made you anyway. Thus he is complicit in the sin. He created the sin, just using a tool.

If I tell you that you drove your car home, are you going to tell me that it was actually the accelerator that drove the car and not you?

wefmeister: Yep...that's pretty much it.

Bender: If you can't understand it as is, your answer will not be worth my time.

mzjakes: You said "If there's no chance of sinning then there's no opportunity for growth." Are you limiting God? Are you saying God is unable to allow you to grow without sin?

ESweetPea: You said "And as far as the car analogy...you can push on the gas and not speed. You can do things in moderation. Yes, it's possible to overdo the gas, but it's not inevitable."
--If you push on the gas, the car goes. How fast it goes is irrelevant. You know that an action you take will cause a reaction. God takes the action of creating you knowing it will create the reaction of sin. All you are saying with your analogy is that yes God did create sin but just not an excessive amount. So in effect you agree with me.

Loose Change: Bingo!

wefmeister: I have children, but I am not omnipotent and that is the difference. Creating someone you SUSPECT will back-sass you at 13 is totally different from creating someone you KNOW for a fact will become a murderer.

Answer 1

Having children who you know will disobey you is like breeding rebels.
Perhaps you could enlarge the parameters of you reasoning?

Then you will not be having any children??

Answer 2

That is exactly what several have been debating else where.
And you are correct. It would make G-d solely responsible for the sins of the creations.

If G-d is suppose to know everything. Then why would said g-d create the situation that would allow sin. Worse encourage it.

Free will has nothing to do with it. Why put the Apple tree in the Garden in the first place unless said g-d wanted us to fall.
And why would said g-d place this sin on all who followed?

I did not commit said sin why am I blamed. I did not rob the store so the cops are not going to arrest me for a crime I did not commit. Why would g-d?

I do not believe a creator would blame the innocent for what they did not do either. The concept, with a due respect is ridiculous.

Answer 3

But creating angels didn't work out so well.

It's no fun being worshipped by somebody you created to worship you (refer to the Buffybot and Spike's eventual disgust with both it and himself for having it made.) And if they decide to disobey...aw, crap! They're immortal and evil.

Best to give the creatures the ability to choose right or wrong and hope they get it right. Free will means you can CHOOSE to sin...but not that you're doomed to.

And as far as the car analogy...you can push on the gas and not speed. You can do things in moderation. Yes, it's possible to overdo the gas, but it's not inevitable.

So I think the analogy could use a little work.

Answer 4

If there's no chance of sinning then there's no opportunity for growth. God had already created such beings (the Angels)before creating man....but created man anyway so that He would have a partner in creation....something the 'perfect' Angels can never be.

Answer 5

I think along those lines as well. If God created Satan, then God caused us to sin in a way. If we didn't have a choice to be born... then how can we be held accountable for our sins. Does God/Satan influence our thoughts? And if so, how much choice to we really have then? I think it's to hard to know, and you should just try and make the most unselfish/loving choices that you can.

Answer 6

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

What you fail to realize is the why.

And I get the impression the why would be lost on you.

.

Answer 7

God is the First Cause of everything that happens. However, man is the secondary cause. When man chooses to sin, man is responsible for the consequences of his decision. God is blameless. "Shall the clay say to the potter, "Why have you made me thus?"" "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved."

Answer 8

Not at all. He didn't create sin... He created a perfect person that was sinless, and the Devil caused them to sin. God didn't create man TO sin... so your statement doesn't even make sense. Or I guess "no" to your question.

Answer 9

Dude: Although sin is prevalent so is the option to live free from it. Jesus Christ paid the price for our sin so that we don't have to. It is all part of free will. Besides, only those who want to have eternal life will have it. After all, you would not want to spend eternity in the company of a bunch of Jesus freaks, in heaven, and in joy, would you?

Answer 10

This is really, really easy. If there is no god, all 500 million questions asked on this subject are just so much dust in the wind. Occam's Razor -- the simplest explanation is usually the right one.

Answer 11

Sadly all you will get is the god isn't at fault even though it knew long before it's actions that it would create Satan and Satan would "ruin the world."