What does this passage suggest to you?

Question

"As the government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion, as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility of Musselmen, and as the States never have entered any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

This is a passage from the Treaty of Tripoli, which was approved by none other than one of our Founding Fathers, John Adams. Don't you think this strongly suggests that the United States was NOT founded on the Christian religion?

Sequoia: Perhaps you should read it again. It's really quite clear!

Answer 1

The United States Constitution serves as the law of the land for America and indicates the intent of our Founding Fathers. The Constitution forms a secular document, and nowhere does it appeal to God, Christianity, Jesus, or any supreme being. (For those who think the date of the Constitution contradicts the last sentence, see note 1 at the end.) The U.S. government derives from people (not God), as it clearly states in the preamble: "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union...." The omission of God in the Constitution did not come out of forgetfulness, but rather out of the Founding Fathers purposeful intentions to keep government separate from religion.

Although the Constitution does not include the phrase "Separation of Church & State," neither does it say "Freedom of religion." However, the Constitution implies both in the 1st Amendment. As to our freedoms, the 1st Amendment provides exclusionary wording:

Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. [bold caps, mine]

Thomas Jefferson made an interpretation of the 1st Amendment to his January 1st, 1802 letter to the Committee of the Danbury Baptist Association calling it a "wall of separation between church and State." Madison had also written that "Strongly guarded. . . is the separation between religion and government in the Constitution of the United States." There existed little controversy about this interpretation from our Founding Fathers.

If religionists better understood the concept of separation of Church & State, they would realize that the wall of separation actually protects their religion. Our secular government allows the free expression of religion and non religion. Today, religions flourish in America; we have more churches than Seven-Elevens.

Although many secular and atheist groups fight for the wall of separation, this does not mean that they wish to lawfully eliminate religion from society. On the contrary, you will find no secular or atheist group attempting to ban Christianity, or any other religion from American society. Keeping religion separate allows atheists and religionists alike, to practice their belief systems, regardless how ridiculous they may seem, without government intervention.
The Declaration of Independence

Many Christian's who think of America as founded upon Christianity usually present the Declaration of Independence as "proof" of a Christian America. The reason appears obvious: the Declaration mentions God. (You may notice that some Christians avoid the Constitution, with its absence of God.)

However, the Declaration of Independence does not represent any law of the United States. It came before the establishment of our lawful government (the Constitution). The Declaration aimed at announcing the separation of America from Great Britain and it listed the various grievances with them. The Declaration includes the words, "The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America." The grievances against Great Britain no longer hold today, and we have more than thirteen states.

Although the Declaration may have influential power, it may inspire the lofty thoughts of poets and believers, and judges may mention it in their summations, it holds no legal power today. It represents a historical document about rebellious intentions against Great Britain at a time before the formation of our government.

Of course the Declaration stands as a great political document. Its author aimed at a future government designed and upheld by people and not based on a superstitious god or religious monarchy. It observed that all men "are created equal" meaning that we all get born with the abilities of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That "to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men." Please note that the Declaration says nothing about our rights secured by Christianity. It bears repeating: "Governments are instituted among men."

The pursuit of happiness does not mean a guarantee of happiness, only that we have the freedom to pursue it. Our Law of the Land incorporates this freedom of pursuit in the Constitution. We can believe or not believe as we wish. We may succeed or fail in our pursuit, but our Constitution (and not the Declaration) protects our unalienable rights in our attempt at happiness.

Moreover, the mentioning of God in the Declaration does not describe the personal God of Christianity. Thomas Jefferson who held deist beliefs, wrote the majority of the Declaration. The Declaration describes "the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God." This nature's view of God agrees with deist philosophy and might even appeal to those of pantheistical beliefs, but any attempt to use the Declaration as a support for Christianity will fail for this reason alone.

Answer 2

I looked up WHY we were signing that treaty at that time, and read up on the Barbary Pirates. (This is so much more interesting than work.)

Apparently, the treaty called for the payment of tribute by the US (which had no significant navy at the time to defend itself). And AFTER this treaty (providing that there would be no further payments) was signed, the "tribute" was again demanded, and the US ended up fighting two wars to end the practice. (Jefferson took a stronger tack than Adams.) Also, I believe US ships were seized and US sailors taken hostage, routinely.

So it might suggest that US problems with that region of the world (including hostage-taking), and efforts to appease them and be rid of the problem, go back a long way! I remember reading something about Jefferson and Adams discussing this, and one warning the other that if we fought back harder we would be fighting them forever.

Given the whole history, that treaty's sentiments may be only as authoritative as, say, the words of a modern hostage on videotape condemning his or her own country. It was negotiated from a position of weakness. We were a new country back then.

This is not to say that the case is proven for "America as a Christian nation," but I did find it interesting how our Middle-Eastern problems are not new.

Plus ca change . . . (I know a bit of French but can't type it)

Answer 3

See my previous question about the "separation of church and state".

Look at these quotes from John Adams...

John Adams and John Hancock:
We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus! [April 18, 1775]

“The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity…I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and the attributes of God.”
[June 28, 1813; Letter to Thomas Jefferson]

“[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”
[letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress]

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798

Answer 4

The Bible, both New and Old Testaments, tend to consider dictatorships to be a good thing. It's kinda sad that neither devout Jews nor devout Christians can appreciate freedom. The "Kingdom of God," fine--dictatorship works if the dictator is omnibenevolent. But to give unlimited power to faulty humans, to me, borders on insanity. Ironically, the same Bible that seems so in favor of kingdoms and monarchies also explicitly tells us even the just man falls seven times per day.

Answer 5

I believe that passage was referring to the admendments article 1 which states"Congress shall make no laws respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peacefully to assemble; and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. T4

Answer 6

This nation was obviously founded as a Christian nation. If you specifically asked the founding fathers they would tell you this (read what they wrote at the time).

I do not understand why this is such a issue for liberals and atheists. While it was founded as such obviously it is not a Christian nation today (as government is concerned). What is the point of the argument?

Answer 7

No, it was never founded on Christianity. It was founded on our rights that all people have...or should I say HAD before Bush came in with his Patriot Act, military tribunals act of 2006 and a few others which have destroyed our rights.

Answer 8

It is a correct statement.
The Constitution is not based on any religion. It is a project management document.

That doesn't mean that the SOCIETY in America isn't based on the Christian religion.

Answer 9

Do people actually think we were founded to be a theocracy? I always thought they were joking when they made remarks like that....

We were founded on what appeared to our Deist founders to be Universal Morality. Not a Christian state. If those Morals happen to look like those of Christianity it is because Christianity follows universal morality.. not that the US follows Christian morality.

Answer 10

Correct. It suggests exactly that.

NeoCons want to destroy it out of a love for their one god,money.