For Catholics who say that Vatican II's declaration on Islam is heresy?

Question

How do you explain this 11th century quote from the sainted Pope Gregory VII:

"You and We are bound, therefore, by this charity
peculiar among us--compared to the remainder of
the nations--that we believe in and profess the one God,
although in a different way, Who we praise and
venerate daily as Creator of the ages and Ruler of
the same world."

(Pope St. Gregory VII, Ep. 21, to Anzir, King of Mauritania; Patrologia Latina 148, col. 451A)

Marysia...There were armies marching under the banner of Islam in the 11th century that were marauding the Byzantine Empire. The Crusades, in fact, were a response to a call for help from the Byzantines. But--just like today--the majority of Muslims were not out to kill anyone. The situation at that time was not so very different--except that the West had not sunk into the moral depravity it has now.

Abel...you are correct in saying that St. Gregory VII's statement was not ex cathedra, and thus not infallible. But the fact is, he is a canonized saint--meaning that holding the position expressed in this quote was (and is) not heretical, so as to put someone out of the Church.

nardhelain...read the question a little more carefully, I'm not attacking Vatican II's teaching. I'm providing ancient precedent for it.

I agree that we need to work towards understanding, but disagree that we need to put contentions behind us. We can more fully express our Faith (viz. evangelize) when we better know the positions of those who do not hold it. But unity can only be found in the Truth--not in ignoring the Truth. Patting ourselves on the back, pretending that our differences don't have eternal consequences may breed affability. But it will never lead to true unity, and it can never be pleasing to the Lord.

Answer 1

*Is Catholic*

Catholicism, especially early on, viewed Islam as a heresy of Catholicism.
http://www.ewtn.com/library/HOMELIBR/HERESY4.TXT
Above is a early 20th century work on the subject.

While Islam has since then developed into its own religion, it is still understood that Islam started out as a heresy. That is the primary reason that in official texts you will find reference to an understanding that we worship one God and often implying that it is the same God.

I would like to point out that Latin doesn't have THE so the translation that you have should be

that we believe in and profess one God,
although in a different way,

which does not mean that YHWH = Allah just that Catholics and Muslims are monotheists. This point is quite open to debate -- especially as Vatican II says that Muslims THINK they have the faith of Abraham.

So there is a lot of room for historians and theologians to question what exactly is Islam from a Catholic perspective.

Answer 2

Vatican II tried its best to avoid the very situation we have today. The Pope Quotes a centuries old document, a few months ago. He is then put on a Muslim death list. So much for freedom of speech. Do Muslim dictate our freedoms?
The Muslim was the aggressor in the Crusades. They were preventing Christians from visiting the holy sites and charging a "Religion tax" according the Koran, that Christians were not willing to pay.
A careful reading of Vatican will show that what the Council said was not heresy, but was actually right on.
I am a tradititonalist.

Answer 3

When Pope Gregory VII said that he was not speaking 'ex-cathedra'. Therefore, that Papal statement is not binding on all Catholics. There is a process involved when a Pope makes an infallible declaration.

Peace and blessings!

Answer 4

What's wrong with Vatican II's take on Islam? It says we must treat each other with respect, put our contentious past behind us, and work towards mutual understanding. I see much to be admired there, but not anything heretical.

Answer 5

A real Catholic would never reject the teaching of an Ecumenical Council which Vat II is.

Answer 6

It's ridiculous that people believe in the infallability of somebody raised and schooled for a lifetime in the Catholic doctrine/dogma. This flip/flop you raise is a case in point!

Answer 7

i dont believ it's heresy as it's not the same islam IMO. the islam from the 11th century was not out to "murder infidale" as the radicals are today.