No morality without religion/god? Really?

Question

I find it interesting that as I read through many of the answers in here I repeatedly see the exact same turn of phrase that without religion there would no morality.

Without religion many of you claim that there would be:
Riots
Murder
Rape
War
Chaos

I don't have to try very hard to find many of these exact same things being done all by religious people and often in the name of religion or god.

for example - the phrase - Kill'em All, let god sort them out - actually originates from Pope Innocent who used the phrase Kill them all, god will know his own when his soldiers could not distinguish between christians and non-christians.

Need I droll on about all of the child rape that was secretly supported by the catholic church.

Were it not for religion the Dark Ages would never have occurred and science and intellect would have thrived 600 years sooner. Instead our advancement as a society in the areas of science, technology and medicine stopped dead because of faith.

Answer 1

Of course there can be morality without religion. My morals are based on my faith, but you can be a "good" person without a religion.

Answer 2

I both agree and disagree with your 'statements' in the 'explanation' of your question. Yes, the Catholic church did do many 'evil things' but that doesn't mean that ALL Catholics agree with them, or would do similar if given the chance. I also have many friends who are atheist/agnostic, and I know them to be 'good, moral people' as my husband and I are.
The 'FACT' that you are 'missing' here, though, is that 'religion' is so OLD that it can be 'dated back' to the very beginnings of primitive society, and it is 'from those religions' (many of which are no longer 'practiced' or 'believed in') that our 'moral code' comes ...
If you would just 'reword' your 'sentence' 'Without religion there would be no morality,' to something more 'accurate' ... The first moral codes came with the early growth of religious thought in primitive times, but in this 'technological world' the 'moral code' exceeds the 'strictly religious' teachings of the churches today,' then you can see how I can 'agree' and 'disagree' with your whole 'idea' ... that relgion is 'bad' and could not make 'morals' ... religion can not be 'bad' nor 'good' ... and it is only the 'individual person' who can decide whether to 'follow that religion's moral code or take his morals from general society, or devise his own moral code. And by the way, calling something a 'moral code' doesn't INFER that it is 'good' ... the 'moral code' that was practiced by the Green River Killer, or the Oklahoma Bomber, or the people who ran the planes into the World Trade Center did not follow any 'church/synagogue/mosque moral code' but had a very 'evil' one ... so 'moral' does not ALWAYS mean 'good.' Think about that, then take a 'good look' at your 'explanation' again.

Answer 3

I DO believe there can be morality without God and religion, but many of the claims in the OP are incorrect.

For one thing, the Church was the source of most of the scientific achievements throughout history. Either through their own work or through their schools, universities and even missionaries. It was the Church that provided schools and education in the past, not governments.

Incidentally, The Golden Rule is "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you." Most ancient religions have virtually identical "golden" rules. That certainly makes one think that there's a common thread or "mindset" across all mankind, doesn't it?

Some people believe that all humans are innately bad, evil and must be cleansed. I believe that we, or most of us, are innately good and sometimes go bad. We have an internal moral code that guides us.

In its best form, religion can help people who have gone bad or are tempted to do bad things. It might stop them. Whether by fear of the consequences or because they don't want to disappoint God doesn't matter.

In its worst form, religion gives some people a reason or an opportunity to carry out their worst fantasies.

Everything, even atheism, has its pros and cons.

Btw, I've seen Zeitgeist - there were a lot of holes in that too. ;-)

Answer 4

Sorry dear. That quote did not come from Pope Innocent. It came from a knight.

Sorry again dearie. Scientific breakthroughs have been made at the urgings of the church. For instance the Big Bang theory was first postulated by French priest, Fr. George Lemaître. The pope at that time immediately wanted to release it as part of Catholic doctrine. The priest talked him out of it.

Jesus himself says in the bible that there are people who - without ever knowing God - follow him in their hearts.

If you're going to smash the false claims of Christians, do it with truth. Not exaggeration and/or falsehood.

I believe we can be moral without religious teachings. However, the secularism of society is on the rise. It has been since the 60's and the "sexual revolution." What we have seen as a result is a rise in violence against women and children. More crime. More divorce. More selfishness over all.

Answer 5

This is a common misconception. Many Christians think all Atheists are immoral and evil people who steal babies.
(or something like that)
I have had this debate so many times it's riddiculous. I do the right thing because it's the right thing to do. Not because I fear god's eternal spanking if I don't. They say "Well if you don't fear or believe in heaven why not just go around killing people?"
That's stupid! Because it's wrong! It has nothing to do with mans laws or religion. I do not believe in god but I do have morals. The two ARE NOT related!!!

Answer 6

"for example - the phrase - Kill'em All, let god sort them out - actually originates from Pope Innocent who used the phrase Kill them all, god will know his own when his soldiers could not distinguish between christians and non-christians."



Isn't true...
They were killing Cathars a denomination of Gnostic Christians that RCC deemed Heretical. They did try peace first, they send priest and cardinals to argue about which faith was correct and the Catholic representatives converted to Catharism then the RCC killed one of their own knights to justify an all out assault that became the first inquisition.


Blessed Be!

Answer 7

you are not so unlike the religious in the sense that you explain your morality and such with science and technology, while religious explain theirs with religion, they feel that theirs is the only right, similar to you, you are just as close-minded as they are, you hypocrite!

Secondly, the Church didn't support child rape, stop watching fox! It turns out that a few bad seeds committed terrible acts and have banned from their communities for it.

thirdly, your godlessness and your being openly agressive about it only gives the religious more people to complain about. You're like the stupid feminists that pretend they want equality when in fact they think they're better than everyone else. If they really wanted equality, wouldn't they be called equalitarians or something of that sort? You're the reason non-religous people are always singled out and heckled, because you can't stand that people are content with what you don't believe in.

Genetics was also discovered by a catholic priest, though I can't remember which order he was, I want to say Franciscan or Carmelite. His discovery in genetics eventually lead to what seems to be a new breaktrhough in the cure for cancer. I happen to know a molecular biologist who helped to develop it and it seems that it uses certain forms of RNA to stop the reading of the codon that leads to the rapid growth of cancerous cells.

Answer 8

Yes, there can be morality w/out religion - but I think it all comes FROM religiousness in some way. If you go WAY back to the creation of man, laws were centered around religious beliefs - whether it's Muslim, Buddism, Judaism or Christianity.

Those core beliefs have been engrained in people's consciousness and carried through to civil law.

The ten commandments, for instance, contain many commands paralleled in today's society:

- Do not murder
- Do not steal

Some others SHOULD be more weighted in our society:
- Honor thy father and mother
- Do not covet your neighbors wife, possessions etc...

I think many evil things have been done in the name of religion - which is incredibly wrong and immoral in and of itself.

What's missed is the Golden rule, right? Love your neighbor as yourself.

Something so elementary is not thought of today. Everyone is out there for themselves. This selfishness is the root of those elements your original post mentions: riots, murder, rape, war, chaos........ it's loving yourself more than anyone else.

Answer 9

Religion was responsible for the dark ages? Really? Me thinks you might want to consult a history book on that one.

Also Arnold Amuary, (an agent of the pope) not Pope Inoccent said, "Kill them all, God will know his own."

I'm an atheist and that last paragraph is unsupported hogwash. It was the church that preserved the knowledge gained beore the breakdown of Roman society at the hands of pagan invaders, not the othe rway around.
If you are going to go through life questioning what other people tell you, you're gonna need to work on your research skills a bit.

Answer 10

There could obviously be morality without a religion. But then, there would be thugs asking: "Who told you that killing, raping etc. is bad? what do I owe the other?" Not that I think thugs-who hate being committed to any basic law which condemns any harm against others-should be taken seriously, but this is the meaning of this saying.

Answer 11

Just because someone uses "catch" phrases, doesn't make them religious, Christian, moral, or even right.
I as a Christian, believe that with or without denominational religion, some people would remain "moral" while others did not. With denominational religion, the same applies, some are moral and others are not.
Religion does not make you moral or immoral, it is your conscience that keeps you on your path of morality.