Gosh, I'm sorry, but I just don't see the problem. Do you?

Question

With all the heaving and screaming and red-faced apoplexy lately about "socialism" and people "taking your property" I just had to do a little reading.

I just don't see what's so terrible about it.

http://www.maxwell.syr.edu/maxpages/faculty/merupert/Research/far-right/dem_soc.htm

To Sutherly: Hon, you just contradicted yourself. First you say my version is "sugar coated" then you say "socialism is socialism." Well - you're wrong. Just like the "capitalism" that is practiced in this country is not true capitalism.

I KNEW I'd get a lot of knee-jerk responses.

DID ANY OF YOU FANATICS ACTUALLY READ THE LINK? I think it sounds great. I'm tired of Big Business making the rules.

And as far as the "have nots whining" about it, you couldn't be more wrong. See - that's one of the biggest defects of your kind of people. You seem to be genetically incapable of understanding anything of which you are not a part of.

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*sigh* Well, I must say I'm not a whit surprised, but I am disappointed. It's a crying shame that some people are so firmly brainwashed that they are simply incapable of allowing a ray of sunshine (i.e. a new idea) into their spiderweb-ridden brains.

To ILconservative: AGAIN, this propaganda piece you spout is 1000 percent wrong. To each of you spouting the same party line, YOU ARE NOT READING THE SITE.

I don't see anybody saying that those who don't work get all the freebies.

I don't see anybody saying that those that apply themselves do not get ahead.

Where are you getting that?

From those who have programmed you against something you don't have a clue about.

AND HERE'S THE PUNCHLINE:

This country already has plenty of socialist elements. Wake up.

To azred: thanks for READING the site. I cannot understand why people are so vehemently opposed to even allowing a new idea into their minds for a mere moment or so. It won't kill ya.
And as for "it'll never be like that" well....is that any reason not to strive for it? Yes, there will always be people who will slit your throat for a quarter, but you can't allow that to make you hole up inside your home forever.

We have to try. We have to make an effort to jerk some of the power away from just a minute percentage of evil, corrupt, scheming entities who have no conscience or social obligation. Like when Valdez sank. I still can't get over the fact that here is a multi-billion dollar company who clearly was guilty of severe negligence and caused untold horrific damage to hundreds of miles of pristine coastline - not to mention PEOPLE - and have NEVER paid one red cent in retribution or clean-up.

That is insane, and THAT is what I'm fighting about.

PEOPLE count more than money.

To joby: Uh, pal? The government is making decisions about my life, money, future, air, water NOW. And I pay about 50% taxes NOW. Think about it. "Other models?" why can't we create our own system? We have a blended system NOW.

Again to "joby" - people like you just make me tired. Who is talking about "begging the Federal Government" for anything? Are you people simply unable to process the knowledge that we work for a living too? Again, just another blowhard who pulls out the same rote response, no new ideas allowed.

To John: Wowie, this is really making me tired. Repeating the same things over and over and over and you STILL aren't absorbing it.

I have never said that if you work harder you don't get ahead. I don't recall anybody saying that. That is a knee-jerk cliche handed out by the same people who blackballed actors and writers during the McCarthy debacle.

And I think "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" is beautiful.
Sheer poetry.
Imagine a world where an artist or an athlete or an engineer or a pianist or a teacher each had food on the table, a roof over their heads, and a future in the bank account.

Again to John: You're wrong about that, too. Big Corporations most certainly DO run this country. I dare you to google who cheney had sit in on his "energy task force" meetings.

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TO BRUCE B -- WOW what a great post! Bravissimo! Hey, feel free to email me links or sites or articles any time! You have just made my day. I salute you with a cold glass of orange juice!!

Answer 1

Well, well, well all the American ignorance weighing in on a subject they have no idea about....it is like you said "Christ is dead" or something, when in reality he is quite alive within the "socialist" beliefs....I could example this but will save you the boredom, but I will give a few...the UK is "socialist" and it gave us Richard Branson, one of the world's richest men in the UK, interesting, such a chance to get ahead, railways, airlines, telecommunications, in a country that takes care of its poor; hey, what about Conrad Black and Stronach, a Hungarian immigrant, penniless when he arrived in Canada but owns Magna Corporation, they survived in Canada and used the same "socialist" medicine as the homeless woman;...France?...don't we see all the villas and chateaus and all those superb wines they must just be producing for the poor who get some of the best socialist care in the world and work less than all of us attaining those goals....Cuba? hey you may preach they don't have freedom but they have medical treatment, one of the highest education rates and are light years ahead in organics and energy efficiency...Ireland?..well they pay for post secondary education and it is also one of the fastest growing economies in the world; I, personally, get so tired of hearing how much better Americans have it, most often professed by the semi literates with an education, better than the rest of us and, yes they may, but the homeless man who falls though the cracks? not lazy, just fell and he can die for all anyone cares and this is why government, an honest government, not what you have on offer from either the democrats nor the republicans, has to be a part of the social system....a social system is based on the tribal system and the elders of the tribe always made sure all were taken care of...we forget the roots of "government" are based on the tribal principle and it is not a redistribution of wealth as much as sharing of the proverbial pie, key word being "sharing"and not to make people grovel for what is rightfully their "share"...the nature of the present beast in US government and the "man" will get extremely agitated if he is not allowed to be greedy and forced to share..oh. wait, the problem in the United States right now is because the "saint",Ronald Regan, allowed media concentration so the rich and greedy could buy up all sources of communication and control what the little guy gets to hear...I don't think any of us outside the American borders actually believes that if Americans were given the truth, they would never have been duped twice by Bush and Cheney...the present voice in the US is the voice of fear, fear by the greedy few that Americans will learn just how poor and disenfranchised they are compared to the rest of the world..this fear their leaders have tried unsuccessfully to spread word wide and this alone has destroyed the image of a once great nation...but not for long..the movement is formalizing and jelling, with the help of the internet, to the point that if politicians do not start listening to the peoples, the country will die a slow death and the very corporations, let's just start with the number one example, Walmart, will all pack their bags full of money and wander off to China leaving America to wallow in the worst depression in its short history and a subsequent revolution....
I will end with a quote from the link: "First, we call ourselves socialists because we are proud of what we are. Second, no matter what we call ourselves, conservatives will use it against us. Anti-socialism has been repeatedly used to attack reforms that shift power to the people and away from corporate capital. In 1993, national health insurance was attacked as 'socialized medicine' and defeated. Liberals and progressives are routinely denounced as socialists in order to discredit reform. We also call ourselves socialists because we are proud of the traditions upon which we are based, namely the Socialist Party of Eugene Debs and Norman Thomas, and the other struggles for change that have made America as democratic and just as it now is. Finally, we call ourselves socialists to remind everyone that we have a vision of a better world."
In The United States, there are two forms of socialist...the one above called "humanist" also used to describe the real "liberal who is a "socialist" and the ones Americans see, the capitalist most often used to describe the pseudo "liberal"s who are NOT socialist at all and will use all mechanisms allowed to them to demonize the true liberal socialist.
My email is attached for all the eternally ignorant to spew their venom at me....you know, you are the only peoples who can watch actual footage of situations and call Michael Moore a liar.

Answer 2

LOL
Interesting concept even if slightly flawed and certainly skewed to try win over some hearts
LOL

We can all agree that socialism works hand in hand with democracy. The problem being - those who think they are more equal then others will vote themselves more and the minority will evetually loose.

Its the same priciple about taxes. I am sure we all heard the story about the guys going to dinner and getting the refund - so lets ask ourselves the simple question - if this was actually fullly implemented - how long will it be before the bread winner stops coming to dinner.

Lets face it - people are people - if everyone wants to be a slave then this system might actually work - but they dont - which means private ownership and personal responsibility must exist. If they exist then this system will fail. Thats where the problem lies - people dont want to be part of the collective - they want to be individuals - and as such MUST act and be held accountable on a personnal level for their actions


Plato tried to get this type of system going and made it known back in his day. Until this day it has NEVER worked although tried often the void of the "more equal then others" has been greater then the system could hold in order to work properly and the individual has always taken precedence thus killing the system - the lack of slaves will always bring the system down


As for all the people talking about how this cant happen in america - I recommend you find out what the ten planks of the communist manifesto are - because ALL ten of them exist and are alive and well in america today - just because we call them something else doesnt mena they dont exist - this country has been on a march toward a democratic/socialist society and dreams of world governance since the 30's

The idea just isnt being presented to the general public because the uproar would be too great. So the government does it one small step at a time - well - at least until bush - he takes huge leaps - which is probably why people are seeing it a little more clearly now then before

Answer 3

Big corporations most absolutely run this country. Why the hell else would they have over 40,000+ money waiving lobbyist walking the red-light district in D.C.

People will always confuse wanting a fair shake as holding your hand out. When you are at the top and get to artificially set your own salaries - or sit on your fat *** expecting to make more (higher percentages) investing than those busting butt to make it for you, then something is wrong.
It is funny to hear them say stuff like, 'if you don't like it, move'. Well, if these artificial arrogant jerks were real Americans, they would be glad to give more money to the system, understanding they in no way deserve their ridiculous returns.
We all know the type, though. They are the rich kid who moves up the street. One day they see the other kids playing baseball in a small lot and says we can all come play in his big yard. Maybe this rich kid isn't so bad. But after a few times being called out on their way to first base, they start getting mad and tell us we better call them safe at first or they're going to take their ball and bat and go in the house and you got to leave.

You see, the only thing important to them is 'me, me, me'. Different set of rules for me.

On the other hand - the Government pisses away so much money now - why give them more to just piss away. Maybe if our money was used better, people would be more inclined to pitch in their fair share.

Answer 4

While it does sound good I have a few problems with Socialism, be it Democratic or otherwise:

1: I don't believe in redistribution of already acquired assests. I support Capitalism but it has to be regulated Capitalism. Much like the U.S. was in the early part of the 1900's under Teddy Roosevelt, and also under FDR through Carter.

2: I like the idea of private property, Socialism allows you to have personal property (assets that can be moved around) but not private property (house, land, etc).

3:Socialized medicine sounds great, but I would prefer single payer (Medicare), it gives you more choice of who you want to cover you. Private companies could still compete with the government, and for all you Free Trade advocates, more competition brings the prices down as the quality goes up.

4: I prefer the progressive tax system but figure that the loop holes need to be shut. and for all the Flat Tax advocates, the Flat Tax is watered down socialism, with loop holes so certain people get out of taxes.

5: The Government should be the employer of last resort, but private industry needs to be regulated, and its first mission statement should be to benefit the people of the country. Corporations are not people, if you put mercury in your neighbors drinking water you would go to jail. While the Supreme Court has said that corporations are people I suggest you read the actual decision of Santa Clara COunty vs. Southern Pacific Railroad, this is the first one, the Supreme Court decided that corporations were not people but the clerk who was bribed by big business changed the title of the decision. the heading says they are but the decision states that they are not.

Answer 5

I am a liberal, but I am not a Democratic Socialist.

Try it yourself. Get a bunch of buddies together and start your own tofu co-op. You will soon find that everyone will start manipulating everyone else in an attempt to get their way and hell will break loose. Business requires authority and decision making and leadership. The test of the decision making must be the market - an impartial test that depends only on the efficiency of the firm, and not their personality or political beauty pageant. Voting or consensus decision making is incredibly inefficient and prone to manipulation.

There is also a technical reason why the publics preferences over market goods cannot defined by majority decision making - there are always some minorities who could trade within themselves and be better off. But this effect is only important if people's preferences are continuous and there are no externalities.

Answer 6

I actually read through the site.

On the surface it seems tame enough, but the world the author envisions will never come about because of one reason: people aren't that selfless. Human history is full of people who stepped on others just to get ahead, regardless of the social structures in place.

Although it might be nice to have a world that is "fair", human psychology prevents it. Zero-Sum thinking seems to be hardwired into our brain for some reason.

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Don't be too harsh with those who disagree with you, though. They are only disagreeing with you, not personally insulting you.

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edit: I concur--we should make the world a better place, otherwise what is the point of being here? Also, I concur that people count more than money.

The single greatest problem is that "socialism" has more than a century of negative connotations attached to it. Unfortunately, merely choosing a different word won't help--a cat is still a cat even if you call it a "konjib".

I'm afraid you won't find Y!A Politics to be a place where you will change minds, though. That, also, is a shame.

Answer 7

I agree with some of what is there.but not all of it! As a Democrat Liberal, I am in favor of smaller government, not bigger! Bigger is only better is some places, and some ideas, but definitely not government!
Big corporations getting huge tax breaks., while middle, and lower classes are getting get taxed to death! I never minded paying my fair share, but the ones who could afford to pay higher taxes, always got the tax breaks! That is hardly fair!
People should be able to do a job they like, for a decent wage, get paid enough that it makes it worth their time and trouble to do it, and still be able to pays bills,and actually live a little! That's not to much to ask!
But, as for the rest of it,there is too much change,all at once for people to handle! Even me! Most of the people in this country prefer life as they have it now!
Democrats who want any kind of change for the betterment of this country, are seen as radicals! And it is a shame! This great country could be so much better! But unfortunately, the majority of t his country is Republican! And until that changes, this country's population will continue to keep its head buried in the sand until their leaders(Rep.) run it into the ground!
But, I can't see how socialism will be any better!

Answer 8

What? Democratic Socialism???? Isn't that what the Nazis called themselves!? You want another Hitler!?

Let's face it: the people are just too stupid to govern themselves. Sure, give them a vote, but then make sure to fix the results! Can you imagine what would happen if honest voting occurred? Abortion might be banned or gays might be allowed to marry! Don't be foolish!

And workers RIGHTS?? Are you crazy? That would cost too much! I mean, what are you going to say, that they deserve universal health coverage? That would kill profits! How are we supposed to enjoy our new Hummers, six-digit sports cars, or multi-million dollar mansions if our profits go wasted on the poor? Besides, they don't have to worry because once we are billionaires we will be happy to share some of the wealth via Trickle Down, remember? But right now we have to piss on them to make it there! Who cares if days or weeks of their lives are wasted on bothering insurance companies to pay for their worthless hides?! They are expendable like any other orc! WE always knew that!

RETIREMENT? But orcs LOVE to work!! Why should we get lazy and stop doing what we love best? No, the American dream is to serve the master and work until we die!

So quit your whelpin' and get in line and MARCH!!!

Answer 9

This is an opinion piece. There are no statistics or documentation to support the argument. The fact of the matter is that we are not all equal in terms of education and work ethic. I get up every morning to go to work and rarely call in sick. I have gotten 4 promotions in 5 years. I have earned those promotions. I see people around me that don't have the same drive or work ethic, so they should not have everything I have, just like I don't deserve everything that someone with a PHD has, who has worked hard to earn those credentials. The only people in a capitalistic society that are unhappy are those who feel a sense of entitlement.

Answer 10

Pure socialism wouldn't work any better than pure capitalism. Even the Chinese have figured that out. As far as corporations running everything, they don't. The vast majority of business and services in this country are provided by small business owners.

Frankly, if I work harder than the person next to me, I should do better. The old "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" idea is crap.