Hunters, what do you think of NYPD triggers?

Question

The Glocks used by the NYPD have a 12 lb trigger pull. I've read statistics showing that the hit ratio of the NYPD is 15% while the LAPD has a 51% hit ratio with their Berettas that have a 5 lb trigger pull on the single action follow shots.

Don't you think that it's stupid as hell to put an EXTRA HEAVY trigger to prevent negligent discharges, I figured that the old 8lb trigger pull was bad enough.

Answer 1

Unfortunately within law enforcement... you have a group of managers who worry about liability. They see firearms and their use as a liability. Even training is a liability and they think the least amount of time handling the firearm, and when it is handled it is only done so in the strict environment of the range is the safest thing to do.

Unfortunately what the don't realize is that the lack of training and familiarity is what makes people dangerous. They aren't comfortable with firearms, they feel like they shouldn't touch it because it's dangerous and they never learn how to master the weapon. When they do handle the weapon they are so damned nervous they stop thinking and do stupid things.

There are numerous cases of officers having carried unloaded guns on duty, finding pieces of food in their guns and this is found out at the range when they go to qualify because they haven't done ANYTHING with there weapon for an entire year!

One of the reason's the Glock is chosen is for it's simplicity. Once the magazine is inserted and the slide pulled to the rear all you do is pull the trigger to fire. With guns that do have safities/decockers there actually is a lot of training to get people to learn the tactics of when to take off the safety, when to put it back on, and when to decock. But the 5.5 lb Glock standard trigger, while it's length of trigger pull is similar to a revolver it's weight is closer to a heavy single action gun. With the 8lb or 12 lb triggers you get something the liability managers deem as safer!

When you have a group of people who are afraid to learn and the money managers don't want to spend the money on training and bullets, (but new cars, radios, communication equipment) you get a dangerous situation. So the same liability managers make the trigger pulls extra heavy hoping to keep an ND from happening.

But you're right. The trigger is so heavy that it again takes more practice to fire it accurately. And in an extreme situation you now get officers mashing the trigger instead of pressing it to the rear and ending the fight with proper hits on target. Just as you pointed out earlier those same untrained officers who don't practice on their own, go to the range only once a year, are the same ones that don't have a basic skill set to fight from. They can't shoot accurately, and they can't shoot accurately quickly! Granted handgun shooting IS a perishable skill, but you can keep up a certain level of skill with a minimum of practice. Many of these officers do not have any real base of shooting to build from.

So not only is it the fault of the managers and leadership as a "failure to train" but the fault of the individual to take it upon themselves to learn the tools of their trade. Not to mention THE tool that will save their life in a deadly force confrontation.

They see different aspects of law enforcement than the use of deadly force. The focus more on the non lethal aspects, the cars, the services, the statistics than the do the business of shooting.

Many police only qualify once a year.

The risk managers for a department see a group of under trained officers and don't want a firearm that can easily be discharged. There are numerous ND's (Negligent
Discharge as opposed to accidental discharge, because if it went off, you screwed it up!) for police officers and it is directly due to a lack of training and the high adrenaline situation's they are exposed too.

So yes it comes from flawed thinking and people who don't know about guns making the gun policies. People should definitely stick to their area of expertise or let someone who is an expert advise them. Or hell do the research and find out for yourself! Then bounce it off multiple experts to find the best solution.

Answer 2

Glock has sold the NYPD new trigger spring modification parts kits. They will reduce the trigger pull and reduce the required trigger pull weight to 4.7 lbs. Quite and improvement over the 8 lb pull on the contract guns already issued. I think the 15% hit ratio was a bit exagerated. It was and continues to be bad though. They even had several cases where the academy recruits were uable to pull the triggers at all. (Most were women but not all). The NYPD was negligent for not checking out the other stats from the hundreds of other municipal departments before issuing the Glock as the standard side arm.Even seasoned police officers have encountered problems with the Glock's two stage trigger pull. The main issue was panic over 9/11 and the city's reaction to that panic. Hopefully no one will die accidently as a result.

Answer 3

This is what happens when a committee of left wing liberals do something by concensus. What they should do is disarm the cops in NYC so they would be the same as the citizens (victims) that live there. Criminals ignore the law anyway; let the cops suffer like everybody else and not be able to defend themselves.

Answer 4

The NYPD beat that 15 percentage significantly in Amadu Diallo's case.

Answer 5

I thought the whole idea was to try to keep people from being hurt. Good Lord, man, you aren't actually supposed to SHOOT the things! And insofar as your statistics go, to double-tap (hits) with those percentages, you'd have to put about a full clip downrange, and we know what happens when that many shots are reported in the press.

Answer 6

Dont know what hunters got to do with this issue,however some of them trigger happy cops need 100 lb. pull.