If another Jehovah Witness quotes the verse?

Question

Ecclesiastes 9;5 I will scream because they are wrong, wrong, wrong, After Our Lord Jesus Christ rose from the dead. The curtain
of the temple tore in two, from top to bottom,
and the earth shook, and the rocks split. the tombs were opened,and many bodies of the saints, who had fallen asleep were raised, and coming out of their tombs after his resurrection and the went into the holy city
and appeared to many. Now tell me Jehovah Witness if Jesus rose the dead, why do you continue to say they are still dead. Are you calling our Lord and God Jesus Christ a liar? Can you answer me.

Teem ! the bodies of the saints went into the holy town, and showed themselves I don't think they were sleep walking. They had been raised from the dead, then the saints walked into the town. So they must have been alive to be able to walk.

Answer 1

Suzie i was just thinking the same thing when i read some posts today quoting Eccles 9...
Matthew 27v51 curtain torn in two..verse 51 tombs were open and many bodies of the Saints who had fallen asleep in death and were raised to life. Verse 53; and coming out of the tombs after His Resurrection THEY went into the Holy city and appeared to many...i know how i interpret this, but each to their own..I'm not here to argue, and I'm open to learning..
Be Blessed everyone xxx

EDIT: Suzie I've just read ecc 9v5..and i think the key is in v4...he who is joined to all the living has hope-- meaning those who believe in Jesus Resurrection have hope of eternal life...because Jesus is of the living..does this make sense to you? maybe JW's are focused on v5 and not considering v4..what do you think? I've been wrong about JW's before so please don't all shout at me...thanks xx

2nd Edit: Curley sue, thanks for ur note..yes i love learning more about my God, my Saviour, The Lord Jesus Christ...i am very glad The Holy Spirit leads me into all truth..my trust is in Him and always will be...
Shalom

Answer 2

Acts 24:15 " and I have hope toward God, which hope these [men] themselves also entertain, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous"

Why the apostle says that?

Tombs Opened’ at Jesus’ Death. The text at Matthew 27:52, 53 concerning “the memorial tombs that were opened” as the result of an earthquake occurring at the time of Jesus’ death has caused considerable discussion, some holding that a resurrection occurred. However, a comparison with the texts concerning the resurrection makes clear that these verses do not describe a resurrection but merely a throwing of bodies out of their tombs, similar to incidents that have taken place in more recent times, as in Ecuador in 1949 and again in Bogotá, Colombia, in 1962, when 200 corpses in the cemetery were thrown out of their tombs by a violent earth tremor.—El Tiempo, Bogotá, Colombia, July 31, 1962

Answer 3

"This confuses me a great deal, because I thought a key doctrine of the Witnesses was strict monotheism." This is true, JWs worship only one God. They do not worship Jesus, nor do they put him on a level with God. "If Jehovah is the only God, how is it that the Word [Jesus] is a god?" Generally, JWs don't call Jesus a god. This is because of our modern western mindset. However, the semitic mindset (with which John 1:1 was written) allowed for other beings to be called 'gods,' without it being polytheism. Most Christians wouldn't argue that the Bible is a polytheistic book. Yet, we have several scriptures calling other beings 'gods.' For example, Psalm 8:5 calls angels 'gods.' Some dispute this, but if you believe the entire Bible is inspired by God, then you have to agree that it is quoted in Hebrews 2:7, and that it unambiguously refers to the angels. However, because of our modern mindset, most translations render Psalm 8:5, not as 'gods,' but as 'heavenly beings' (so the NIV) or some equivalent. Another example is in Psalm 82, where 'gods' are referred to several times. Even Jesus refers to this verse in John 10:34, 35. If you don't like John 1:1 calling Jesus 'a god,' how about 'divine' or 'godlike?' Both are valid alternate translations offered by the NWT. It also matches the Goodspeed and Moffatt renderings of John 1:1. Daniel Wallace, in the scholarly work Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, also favors the 'divine' rendering. John 1:1 is not promoting polytheism, regardless of your favorite rendering. It is in fact tell us about a quality that the Word has, and isn't focusing on his identity.

Answer 4

Please note that Mathew 27:52, says "all the holy ones", or in your version, which is no less correct "all the saints" were raised up. It does not say "everyone who had fallen asleep in death". None of God's Holy Word is a lie. Clearly there are others who need to be raised up, otherwise why would Jesus himself say that "the hour is coming when ALL those in the memorial tombs will come out, those who practised good things to a resurrection of life, those who practised vile things to a resurrection of judgement" (John 5:28,29). Surely the Holy ones did not do vile things? Clearly, here Jesus himself was talking about a time when everyone who has died will be judged. Likewise, Revelation, full of prophecies which have not yet occured, so clearly a book talking about a future time and revealed to John by Christ himself almost 60 years after Christs' execution, talks about a time in the future when the dead are given up for judgement; Revelation 20:13 "And the sea gave up those dead in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead in them and they were judged individually according to their deeds". Verse 12 also talks about the dead being judged. If you read and understand Revelation, you will see that it has a chronological pattern, seeing as many other prophecies have yet still to happen, all written about as occuring before the resurrection of the dead, how can they have already been raised up? Jesus will raise the dead, but to believe he has already raised "all the dead" already when the Bible clearly shows he hasn't is not correct. Many people base their beliefs on an isolated scripture which makes it easy to be misled. Despite popular thinking, the Bible is meant to be read as a whole to gain clear understanding. As said in 2 Timothy 3:16 "ALL scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things. straight...." Jehovas Witness' do not only use Eccl. 9:5 explain the condition of the dead, however, it is the most easily understandable, which it is probably why it it used on here. There are many others which require a line or reasoning so take up more time and space. I am sure if you took the time to actually speak to a Jehovas Witness, and resisted the urge to scream at them, they would be willing to show you all the other scriptures. Contact me, I'll be quite happy.
T-Bell, I applaud yor reasoning, obviously you have a desire to learn. See John 17:3 "This means everlasting life, their taking in accurate knowledge of you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ", said by Jesus.

Answer 5

1st it says 'bodies' were raised. This does not mean that they came back to life. Resurrected literally means 'to be raised up'

This occurred when the dead bodies were exposed from the ground.

2nd it still agrees with Eccl 9:5, because it said the dead are asleep, (know nothing)

3rd, the scripture doesn't say 'the resurrected dead walked into Jerusalem, It could mean those who witnessed the bodies being shaken out of their tombs when back to Jerusalem.

4th what does the rest of the bible say about the resurrection?

1 Thess. 4: 13 - 18 says the holy ones who are asleep will not proceed those still alive at the return of Christ.

This is why it is important to read all the bible.

side point Eccl 9:4 says it's better to be a live dog than a dead lion - Why?

because the dead lion doesn't know anything

Eccl 9:10 No knowledge, no wisdom in the grave (asleep)


edit ====

Not all translators agree with your translation,

A modern German translation reads quite similarly: “Tombs were laid open, and many bodies of those buried were tossed upright. In this posture they projected from the graves and were seen by many who passed by the place on their way back to the city.”—Matt. 27:52, 53..

German scholar Theobald Daechsel gives the following translation: “And tombs opened up, and many corpses of saints laying at rest were lifted up.”


Vs 53 Jesus' resurrection came about 3 days later

First, whoever “the holy ones” were, Matthew did not say they were raised up. He said their bodies, or corpses, were.

Second, he did not say these bodies came to life. He said they were raised up, and the Greek verb e·gei′ro, meaning to “raise up,” does not always refer to a resurrection. It can, among other things, also mean to “lift out” from a pit or to “get up” from the ground. (Matthew 12:11; 17:7; Luke 1:69)

The upheaval at Jesus’ death opened tombs, tossing lifeless bodies into the open. Such occurrences during earthquakes were reported in the second century C.E. by Greek writer Aelius Aristides and more recently, in 1962, in Colombia..

Who were those that “entered into the holy city” a considerable time later, namely after Jesus had been resurrected? As seen above, the exposed bodies remained lifeless, so Matthew must refer to persons who visited the tombs and brought news of the event into Jerusalem.

First of all, let it be noted that the pronoun “they” (Matt. 27:53, RS) could not refer to the “bodies,” because all pronouns in the Greek have gender and “they” is in the masculine, whereas “bodies” is in the neuter gender. Nor could “they” refer to the “holy ones,” for the text does not say that the holy ones were raised but merely that their bodies were raised or thrown up.

Further, even the most ancient manuscripts are not in agreement with one another as to the reading of this text. The Sinaitic omits the words “and the memorial tombs were opened” and “entered.”

Adam Clarke, states: “It is difficult to account for the transaction mentioned in verses 52 and 53. Some have thought that these two verses have been introduced into the text of Matthew from the gospel of the Nazarenes, others think the simple meaning is this:—by the earthquake several bodies that had been buried were thrown up and exposed to view, and continued above ground till after Christ’s resurrection, and were seen by many persons in the city. Why the graves should be opened on Friday, and the bodies not raised to life till the following Sunday, is difficult to be conceived.”


Dr. Jenks, says regarding these verses: “This matter is not related as fully as our curiosity could wish. . . . We may raise inquiries concerning it which we cannot resolve.”

I can find more if you wish.

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Answer 6

what's wrong with Ecclesiastes 9:5? after all, this is God's word.
I just don't understand how someone can disagree with divinely inspired words.
as far as the scripture itself , these words were written several hundreds of years BEFORE the death of Christ

Answer 7

I love watching religious people quarrel over the fine details of vague ideas.

Answer 8

Never mind the Jehovah witness. It is cult religion.
jtm

Answer 9

Jahova's Witnesse's cause more suffering than good!
Direct experence! I wish they would go away like all perverted
religious idiots.

Answer 10

scream on...................and then read your bible