Why do some pagans HATE wiccans?

Question

What is the big deal? Each one their own? Why down Wicca? Don't give me crap about t.v. and movies. Because if any other pagan religion was popularized by the media it would have the same effect. So what's the excuse to judge another pagan?

Answer 1

This certainly doesn't apply to all Wiccans (among other things, I AM one) simply the types that make Wicca look bad for the rest of us:

Wiccans tend to seek attention more than other Pagans. Wiccans have a tendency to be shallow in their religious understanding. (At the most extreme, they insist Wicca means "anything you want it to mean")
Wiccans often presume that all Pagans believe the same thing Wiccans believe, thus misrepresenting the rest of Pagandom.
Wiccans are often culturally insensitive in the eyes of other Pagans, applying new myths to old gods. Wiccans also have a tendency to mutilate history for their own ends.
Wicca is seen by some as the fad religion of Paganism, picked up by people trying to be different but not terribly interested in actual study or work.
Wicca is the largest Pagan religion, so when someone behaves badly in the Pagan community, most often it is a Wiccan.

So, what's the excuse to judge another Pagan? The same reason I would judge anyone: bad behavior and erroneous facts deserve to be corrected and/or objected to, as appropriate. You don't get some sort of special pass for being Pagan or Wiccan. To say I should only judge non-Pagans is ethically equivelent to saying I should only judge non-whites.

Answer 2

I've had an experience with a wandering pack of meglomaniacs who stalked me for years and never so much as told me why. I've met several arrogent hippies at 'community events'. I don't know that all or any of these people were specifically Wiccan, but my experiences have put me off of ever having the desire to meet another person who is an energy-working pagan again. It still happens. I'll meet someone at work who's into that sort of thing and they're invariably an arrogent hippy or an angry young meglomaniac/vampire. Are there any nice, decent pagans anywhere? My opinion of Wiccans is actually better than what I think about other pagans in general. Wicca has a code of ethics and moral behavior. The group that stalked me were Hellenists, I think. I was solitary student of Wiccan books at the time, and I remember twice hearing someone in the middle distance saying things like 'stupid Wiccan'. I used to study and practice Wicca, but I've never been initiated into Wicca. I never called myself Wiccan or identified with that beyond the practices and respect for their code of ethics. I think some pagans might hate Wicca because it promotes ethical behavior and some angry young people dont want to restrict themselves and want to terrorize others and feed their own egos. Some people are drawn to the idea of power over others without any moral responsibility. I have recommended on this site before, when someone has asked about magick, that they at least study some of the Buddha's teachings and have some kind of moral foundation before they get involved in energy working. I know many groups have gone back underground exactly because of the wave of Seekers who felt self restraint and humility cheapened what they were looking for. I like Asatru. They're less interested playing the domination game and just want to worship the ancient ones. I

Answer 3

Hmm...kind of have to agree with Nightwind on this one. It's not Wiccans people have a problem with, it's the Waldenwiccans, the ones who aren't really on the path, they just think it would be cool.

Most of us go through that stage, just as most of us also go through a somewhat militant stage as well. MOST of us, also grow out of it eventually. (If we're lucky, our HPs doesn't have to beat it out of us with the flat of her ritual blade.) Unfortunately, those in that stage tend to talk about it more than those of us who are more mature, and so thier ideas of Wicca is what other pagans see.

Then of course, there's the controversy over whether Wicca is really "real" or just something Gardner made up. Pagans with more verifiable lore often feel that we've somehow usurped their place, especially with how visible Wicca has become lately. I personally don't feel it matters; the difference between a lie and a story is that a lie exists only to conceal the truth, while a story exists to reveal it. And there is a lot of truth in Wicca's stories, even if there are not many facts.

End of speech; I now yield the floor...

Answer 4

Ah, Witch Wars. Them versus us! Who is stronger, more dedicated and a real peach of a magick user!!!

I could lob personal data about how I have grown up Pagan and a Witch till the crack of doom, but all this gathered history doesn't make me stronger or better than anyone else. I just happen to be a little further down my path than others, which since it is my path it is important to only me.

People who practice one upmanship are hardly good Pagans or whatever path they have chosen. There is no supernatural yardstick to measure one's "BETTERNESS." The my God/Goddess is better than yours is a hold over from the Christians and it should stop now. What good is being enlighted if all you do is flame people who make you feel insecure? If you have never been a Christian than your problem is you have adopted the societies (Christian based) morality and that teaches that the person on top wins. Well I maybe laying on the bottom of the pile, but what other people think about me isn't a concern!

Pagans need to stick together, form groups who are willing to fight for equal rights and we need to adopt our Christian cousins idea of support your own and in return you will build a larger group. This means to buy Pagan products produced by other Pagans. Support your Pagan businesses and service providers... Many Pagan businesses bite the dust in their first year because they are a specialized business and they take it for granted that the community will support them. But that first sight of anything non-Christian and the Christian network will spread the word and these new businesses wilt on the vine.

We must support the Pagan Community by being a community that buys from other Pagans, provides services to other Pagans and supports Pagan causes. The adoption of the Pentacle here in the US was supported main through a few groups of Pagans and others who didn't worry about their personal reputations because this thing was right for all Pagans!

I step down from my soap box.

Answer 5

I find most Pagans who have problems with "Wicca" have problems with specific Wiccans.

I can count on both hands the numbers of such Pagans and Heathens who specifically exclude ME from their rants about Wiccans....

Yes, I've a half score of mostly Asatruar that say "Wiccans except Labgrrrl" (or other use names of mine.)

It's a start. :)

There are also Pagans who HATE knowledge. If they think you might know more than them, they hate you... I had one tell me she knew sooooooooo much more than me about archaeology because she read a book...not kidding....
I was in a picture in said book at a dig....seriously.

There are also some Wiccan newbies who think that if you think Wicca is not "make it up as you go along" you're somehow against them.

Answer 6

I would have to agree with night wind.
I started my path in Wicca, then wandered into many areas of ancient religions, found alot of similarities and ended up who I am.
Sometimes I answer to Wiccan, sometimes I don't. Dogma has set in over the years, I've seen too many embrace and project hatred. That is what I have no desire to be associated with. I have many Wiccan friends who are old souls and don't like what they have seen happening within their groups.
We are all Witches! But I'd perfer to answer to Pantheist! ; )

Blessed Be our Earth Mother and ALL her Children!
Stop the Hate...it manifests into cancer people.

Answer 7

It seems that human nature always gets the best of us. Christians against Homosexuals, Atheist against Christians. Pagans Against Wiccans. Diannic Wiccans against Gardenairians. Muslims against the whole world. Blacks against Whites. FOX against CNN. It is simply our fallen nature." An ye harm none but the Xian jerks."
It is up to us as individuals to take our own moral inventory and to stop the madness. I keep myself in check with the help of the Holy Spirit and teach my household to do the same.
Blessed Be.

Answer 8

there's a small yet vocal group of folk who do no longer heavily carry Wiccan ideals, yet call themselves Wiccan loudly, intrusively, and often. To make some generalizations, maximum of them use drugs and alcohol to extra, gown outlandishly, play obnoxious music too loud, spout off approximately their "ideals", previous rituals, and super magical powers to all and sundry, no be counted if or no longer they want to take heed to it or no longer, and so on. it incredibly is in simple terms human nature to color all Wiccans with the comb that those jerks supply. different Pagans view those human beings as giving us a bad call, and placing decrease back our efforts to income social attractiveness. So, they on occasion think of all Wiccans are screwing up the artwork we do.

Answer 9

There is a longstanding tension between Asatru and Wicca, it's true. Some of it is cultural, some of it is political, some of it is spiritual.

And some of it, if we're being honest, is because of the lurking, sneaky suspicion Asatruar have that if they don't keep Wiccans at a safe distance, everyone will find out how much of Asatru (in its earliest forms) was nicked *from* Wicca . . . lol.

As a Norse Reconstructionist Heathen with a penchant for folk traditions, superstitions and customs . . . scholarship and research is an important part of my spirituality, and so is historical accuracy. I prefer the discipline of working within a strict ethnocultural cosmology to "going with what works," because I've already DONE that, and already discovered it wasn't for me. I certainly don't begrudge anyone their private spirituality, and I'm more than tolerant of other paths and practices and traditions, but I have to tell you, as someone with some serious scholarship under his belt, it can be a mite difficult not to take public issue with the "my Craft Mother, Raving $ilverwoof" "one book HP" "Oooooh, like on Charmed" crowd of fluffytailed airheads pulling complete and utter nonsense right out of their round little keesters!

It's not like we don't have our own weirdos, lol. It's just easier to be disturbed by everybody else's. :-)

As for the idea that "we're all pagans" or that we need to "show some solidarity" . . . no. Sorry. That's a holdover from xianity, and I'd tell you some of my horror stories of how that's working out for THEM if I wasn't sure most here have xian horror stories of their own. Heathens have a saying: "The Folk decide who's Folk, and who's NOT." It sounds a little harsh to the peace 'n love 'n tie-dye crowd, I know, and some people take it as racist, but in truth, it's neither of those things . . . it is the bluntly stated principle that people are judged on the merits of their characters and their deeds, and either measure up or don't.

I don't go around thinking "@#%^& Wiccans" anymore than I go around thinking "$%#@ blacks" or "#%$*&! gays" . . . because I don't judge people in or as groups, but as individuals, as they interact with me and on the basis of those interactions. Some associations will cause me to be warier in certain areas than others, and some will cause me to ask tougher questions on certain topics than others, because I'm not blind and I'm not an idiot. But I still take people as I find them, one at a time.

Answer 10

I don't think it is Wiccans per se they dislike, I think it's the fluffbunny Wiccans they dislike. The ones who want to be Wiccan for the shock value of it or because they think they can make their boyfriends love them or turn their teachers into toads or because they are completely misinformed by the gibberish fiction they see on tv or in the movies or read in fantasy books.