Jehovah's witnesses A serious Question? Not meaning rudness?

Question

If the organization (watchtower) is a prophet of God then I must ask a question using the NWT.
Deuteronomy 20 “‘However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die.

Ok if the organization (WT) Is a prophet of God. I would like to ask you this by standards of the bible you read (NWT). A prophet is not a prophet of GOd if what they say does not come to pass.

Please explain the following by your bible.

WT QUOTES
1918 "Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection." (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, p. 89)

"I have purposely landscaped the place with palm and olive trees so that these princes of the universe will feel at home.."-Joseph "Judge" Rutherford, Watchtower President

Where Are they? or....

Answer 1

Where in that quoted says that Watchtower are prophet?

you add that information, we don´t say that we are prophets, that is what other people told you that we say, but you won´t see that in our publications

All prophets wrote the prophecies in the bible, we are just reading the book to looking for the true, for example how can you find the date of Jesus´s death in the bible?

Ask that information to a Jehovah´s witness and you will find that information in your own bible something that most people can´t find so easy.

By the way do you know what happens with the earth and all in the earth after Armageddon, during Jesus rulership?

hodgiegirl2000 we know about past errors we studied in our congregations we admit it but none of them offend God or Jesus in the other hand in other organization don´t admit never the error even when you show them in the bible the error.

We spoke the word of God cause we use the bible to support our believes.

Lysdexic? where does it says that? in what book says Watchtower is a prophet?

Answer 2

Dear Michael,

I'd like to make a minor correction. It is Deuteronomy 18:20-22.

Lysdexic already gave you a thorough answer.

I would just like to comment on Moises' question about where the material claims to be a prophet.

The Watchtower set a specific date for such things as Armageddon and God proved them to be a FALSE prophet. It is the very act of trying to force God's hand. It doesn't make any difference whatsoever whether the Watchtower says it is a prophet or not. Although I do believe that several people on Y!A have given numerous quotes where the Watchtower has done precisely that.

For His glory,
JOYfilled

Answer 3

These days, JW's don't realize that the literature from earlier in the 20th century very often stated that the Watchtower organization "spoke the word of Jehovah"...or that certain dates were "God's dates", not their's (i.e.1874, 1914, 1915, 1925). They don't realize that because the organization taught that the end of the world would occur by those dates according to God's word, and then those dates failed, that this actually proves that they are false prophets. Almost none of the teachings from back then are currently accepted by JW's. That shows that they were teaching things that were not true, and were not God's dates or the word of Jehovah at all.

Answer 4

Jehovah's Witnesses have never pretended that they are infallible or inspired. Jehovah's Witnesses have never pretended that they experience miraculous messages from God or Christ. For more than a century, Jehovah's Witnesses have always presented their suppositions as the result of sincere bible research, rather than as "predictions" or "prophesying".

Interestingly, however, even those Christians who did enjoy direct communication from heaven at times came to wrong conclusions; these wrong conclusions were even communicated "out among the brothers"!

For example, the apostle Peter enjoyed remarkable privileges in the early congregation, but it seems that he was the source of an incorrect teaching about the apostle John that was not formally corrected until several DECADES had passed, and John himself finally wrote his gospel about 98 C.E.

(John 21:21-23) Peter said to Jesus: “Lord, what will this man do [that is, the apostle John]?” Jesus said to him: “If it is my will for him to remain until I come, of what concern is that to you? You continue following me.” In consequence, this saying went out among the brothers, that [the apostle John] would not die. However, Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but: “If it is my will for him to remain until I come, of what concern is that to you?”


Jehovah's Witnesses apply the term "prophet" only in a very limited sense to themselves as a religion, not to individuals. The Scriptures indicate that whenever Jehovah purposes to execute judgment upon a people, he always makes arrangement for a 'prophet's work' as a warning. Their self-description as a "prophet" (in this limited sense) does not indicate special inspired knowledge or foreknowledge, but their willingness to perform Christ's assigned warning work in our day leading up to Armageddon.

What group is working harder than Jehovah's Witnesses to preach God's message globally (as Noah did before the Deluge)?

(Amos 3:7) For the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will not do a thing unless he has revealed his confidential matter to his servants the prophets.

(2 Peter 2:5) Noah, a preacher of righteousness...

(Matthew 24:14) And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.


Learn more:
http://watchtower.org/e/20000622/
http://watchtower.org/e/19990715/article_02.htm

Answer 5

Is the WT an inspired prophet of God?

No.

Is the WT infallible?

No.

Have you found some dark hidden secret?

No, it is published for everyone to see.

The WT is the first to admit when it makes a mistake.


No Claim of Inspiration

Not to be overlooked is the larger context of the role of the Watch Tower publications. Whereas Watchtower writers undoubtedly pray for God’s blessing on their work and sincerely believe that God answers these prayers, they make no pretensions of being inspired, infallible or perfect. Consider the following extracts from Watch Tower publications, which prove that this is the case. (This is just a small selection of examples. Many more could be cited, but care has been taken to include at least one example for every decade since The Watchtower began to be published.)

1870s: We do not object to changing our opinions on any subject, or discarding former applications of prophecy, or any other scripture, when we see a good reason for the change,—in fact, it is important that we should be willing to unlearn errors and mere traditions, as to learn truth.... It is our duty to "prove all things."—by the unerring Word,—"and hold fast to that which is good."

1880s: “We have not the gift of prophecy.”[5]

We do not even aver that there is no mistake in our interpretation of prophecy and our calculations of chronology.

Zion's Watch Tower, 1908
1890s: Nor would we have our writings reverenced or regarded as infallible, or on a par with the holy Scriptures. The most we claim or have ever claimed for our teachings is that they are what we believe to be harmonious interpretations of the divine Word, in harmony with the spirit of the truth. And we still urge, as in the past, that each reader study the subjects we present in the light of the Scriptures, proving all things by the Scriptures, accepting what they see to be thus approved, and rejecting all else. It is to this end, to enable the student to trace the subject in the divinely inspired Record, that we so freely intersperse both quotations and citations of the Scriptures upon which to build.[6]

1900s: It is not our intention to enter upon the role of prophet to any degree, but merely to give below what seems to us rather likely to be the trend of events—giving also the reasons for our expectations.[7]

Someone may ask, Do you, then, claim infallibility and that every sentence appearing in "The Watch Tower" publications is stated with absolute correctness? Assuredly we make no such claim and have never made such a claim. What motive can our opponents have in so charging against us? Are they not seeking to set up a falsehood to give themselves excuse for making attacks and to endeavor to pervert the judgments of others?[8]

1910s: However, we should not denounce those who in a proper spirit express their dissent in respect to the date mentioned [1914] and what may there be expected . . . We must admit that there are possibilities of our having made a mistake in respect to the chronology, even though we do not see where any mistake has been made in calculating the seven times of the Gentiles as expiring about October 1, 1914.[9]

1920s: Many students have made the grievous mistake of thinking that God has inspired men to interpret prophecy. The holy prophets of the Old Testament were inspired by Jehovah to write as his power moved upon them. The writers of the New Testament were clothed with certain power and authority to write as the Lord directed them. However, since the days of the apostles no man on earth has been inspired to write prophecy, nor has any man been inspired to interpret prophecy.[10]

1930s: We are not a prophet; we merely believe that we have come to the place where the Gentile times have ended[11]

1940s: This pouring out of God's spirit upon the flesh of all his faithful anointed witnesses does not mean those now serving as Jehovah's Witnesses are inspired. It does not mean that the writings in this magazine The Watchtower are inspired and infallible and without mistakes. It does not mean that the president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society is inspired and infallible, although enemies falsely charge us with believing so.... But we confess with the Scriptures that the day of such inspiration passed long before 1870, as the apostle Paul showed it would. . . . Inspired speaking and writing passed away with the last of the twelve apostles, by whom the gifts of the spirit were imparted to others. Yet God is still able to teach and lead us. While confessing no inspiration for today for anyone on earth, we do have the privilege of praying God for more of his holy spirit and for his guidance of us by the bestowal of his spirit through Jesus Christ.[12]

1950s: The Watchtower does not claim to be inspired in its utterances, nor is it dogmatic. It invites careful and critical examination of its contents in the light of the Scriptures.[13]

1960s: The book [Life Everlasting in Freedom of Sons of God] merely presents the chronology. You can accept it or reject it[14]

Our chronology, however, ... is reasonably accurate (but admittedly not infallible)[15]

Don't any of you be specific in saying anything that is going to happen between now and 1975

F. W. Franz, quoted in The Watchtower, 15 October 1966, page 231.
1970s: In this regard, however, it must be observed that this “faithful and discreet slave” was never inspired, never perfect. Those writings by certain members of the “slave” class that came to form the Christian part of God’s Word were inspired and infallible, but that is not true of other writings since. Things published were not perfect in the days of Charles Taze Russell, first president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society; nor were they perfect in the days of J. F. Rutherford, the succeeding president. The increasing light on God’s Word as well as the facts of history have repeatedly required that adjustments of one kind or another be made down to the very present time.[16]

1980s: It is not claimed that the explanations in this publication are infallible. Like Joseph of old, we say: “Do not interpretations belong to God?” (Genesis 40:8) At the same time, however, we firmly believe that the explanations set forth herein harmonize with the Bible in its entirety, showing how remarkably divine prophecy has been fulfilled in the world events of our catastrophic times.[17]

1990s: Those who make up the one true Christian organization today do not have angelic revelations or divine inspiration. But they do have the inspired Holy Scriptures, which contain revelations of God’s thinking and will. As an organization and individually, they must accept the Bible as divine truth, study it carefully, and let it work in them.[18]

2000s: Although the slave class is defined as “faithful and discreet,” Jesus did not say that it would be infallible. This group of faithful anointed brothers still consists of imperfect Christians. Even with the best of intentions, they can be mistaken, as such men sometimes were in the first century.[19]

It’s therefore quite clear that Jehovah’s Witnesses make no claim to divine inspiration for their publications. Thus, the critics' assertion that “the Watch Tower claims to be an inspired prophet” is manifestly false.

Answer 6

EXACTLY! Well done!



Learn More:
http://watchman.org
http://freeminds.org
http://silentlambs.org
1. Is the Society* a true prophet of God?
1A. How does the Society define "true prophet?"
The three essentials given through Moses were:


1) ...Speak in Jehovah's name...

2) The things foretold would come to pass...

3) His prophesying must promote true worship being in harmony with God's Word and the prophets."

Aid to Bible Understanding, p. 1,348

1B. How does the Society test the true prophet's message?
"The best method of proof is to put a prophecy to the test of time and circumstance. The Bible invites such a test ... the Bible ... establishes the rules for testing a prophecy at Deuteronomy 18:20-22."

Watchtower, March 1, 1965

1C. Does the Society believe that a true prophet exists today?
Yes. In fact, the Society says, "It is of importance to every individual on earth to identify the group that Jehovah has commissioned as His servant' or messenger."

Watchtower, March 15, 1972

1D. Does the Society believe that a true modern prophet would have the same authority as the Old Testament prophets?
Yes. Society members are told that there existed such a group and then they were asked to look for it-"...any group on whom Jehovah would be willing to bestow the commission to speak as a 'prophet' in His name, as was done toward Ezekiel..."

Watchtower, March 15, 1972

1E. Does the Society claim to be the present day true prophet?
Yes. "Who is this prophet? ...not one man, but a body of men and women... known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian Witnesses."

Watchtower, April 1, 1972

1F. Where does the Society/Prophet claim to get its direction?
"Jehovah's Witnesses today make their declaration of the good news of the kingdom under angelic direction and support." In other words, angels tell the Society what to say and do.

Watchtower, April 1, 1972

1G. Does the Society desire and expect Christendom to treat the Society as a prophet of God?
Yes. The Society fully anticipates this: "...regardless of how Christendom views or regards this group of anointed witnesses of Jehovah, the time must come, and that shortly, when those making up Christendom will know that really a 'prophet' of Jehovah was among them."

The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah, p. 70

1H. What role does the Society claim for a prophet in these days? What should a prophet be doing?
The Society spells this out in three ways:

1. "The modern-day counterpart of Ezekiel"

2. "Do the will of Jehovah"

3. "Serve as the mouthpiece and active agent of Jehovah"

The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah, p. 58

1I. Does the Society claim that it has been prophesying for God today?
Yes. "The facts substantiate that the remnant of Christ's anointed disciples (the Society [see context]) have been doing that prophesying to all nations." They claim God's Spiritis "poured out" on them. They ask: "Why argue about it?"

Holy Spirit—The Force Behind the Coming New Order!, p.148

1J. Does the Society claim that prophesying and preaching are the same ministry?
No. The Society claims that their members have been "preaching and prophesying from house to house and city to city...", thus clearly distinguishing between the two ministries. Both preaching and prophesying are regular activities of the Society.

Holy Spirit—The Force Behind the Coming New Order!, p. 150

1K. Does the Society/Prophet claim any special knowledge concerning the Bible?
Yes. The Society published a six-volume work entitled Scripture Studies which it described as "the Bible in an arranged form." It amounted to a running commentary on the Bible. The Society claims that if someone were to "ignore" the Scripture Studies "and goes to the Bible alone, though he has understood his Bible for ten years...within two years he goes into darkness." The Society further claims that if a student "had merely read Scripture Studies with their references, and had not read a page of the Bible, as such, he would be in the light at the end of the two years, because he would have the light of the Scriptures."

Watchtower, 1910, p.298

1L. Does the Society believe that it is the only organization that has God's Spirit or can understand the Bible?
Yes. It has made this clear when it said, "...Jehovah's organization alone, in all the earth, is directed by God's holy spirit or active force ... To it alone God's sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book." Furthermore, it claims that "God by his holy spirit" has directly "revealed" things to its "early Bible students ... far in advance."

Watchtower. July 1, 1973

1M. Has the Society ever prophesied concerning the future and had that prophecy fail the test of "Time and circumstance" (see 1B. above)?
Yes. In fact there are many such "failed" prophecies (see False Prophecy Fact Sheet). Keep in mind, as you study these prophecies that the Society . . .

1) Claims to be God's one and only prophet today

2) Claims to have revelations from God

3) Claims to be the only group that understands the Bible

4) Claims to be the only Spirit-empowered organization on earth today.

False Prophecy Fact Sheet

2. Has the Society made false prophecies?
2A. Does the Society claim to be a true prophet of God, and does it ask that we examine its prophecy record?
Yes. The Society states this explicitly when it says: "So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help ... and to declare things to come? These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? ...This 'prophet' was not one man, but was a body of men and women...known... as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian Witnesses..." It should be noted that even from its earliest beginnings the Society considered itself to be a true prophet of God. The Society does not expect others to just trust that it is a true prophet: "Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a 'prophet' of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. What does it show?"

Watchtower, April 1, 1972

2B. Has the Society predicted that 1914 A.D. would mark the end of earthly rulership?
Yes. The Society made such a prediction in 1908: " ..the 'Battle of the Great Day of God Almighty' (Rev. 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced" (i.e., it began before 1908).

The Time is at Hand, 1908 ed, p.101

2C. Has the Society declared that the earthly arrival of King Jesus took place in October, 1874?
Yes. "Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present since October, 1874, A.D."

Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. IV, p.621

2D. Has the Society declared that the Millennium—the 1,000-year reign of Christ—began in 1873?
Yes. "The Bible chronology herein presented shows that the six great thousand-year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that great Seventh Day, the thousand years of Christ's reign, began in 1873."

The Time is at Hand, 1916 ed., p.ii

2E. Has the Society predicted that the visible, physical return to earth of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob would take place in 1925?
Yes. "...Since other Scriptures definitely fix the fact there will be a resurrection of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and other faithful ones of old ... we may expect 1925 to witness the return of these faithful men of Israel from the condition of death, being resurrected and fully restored to perfect humanity and made the visible, legal representatives of the new order of things on earth."

Millions Now Living Will Never Die, p.89

2F. How certain, in the minds of the Society, was the 1925 resurrection date?
As certain as any date could be. This is evident by various statements including the following:

1) "The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures because it is fixed by the law God gave to Israel."

Watchtower, Sept 1, 1922, p.262

2) "Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures, marking the end of the typical jubilees."

Watchtower, April 1, 1923, p.106

2G. When 1925 arrived did the Society begin to back down on its prophecies about the significance of that year?
Yes. "The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during the year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time, God will accomplish his purposes concerning his own people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire during this year that they would fail to joyfully do what the Lord would have them to do."

Watchtower, Jan. 1, 1925, p.3

2H. As the year 1925 progressed, did the Society indicate even more doubt about 1925 being the resurrection year—the year the new order begins?
Yes. Rather than suggest that a mistake was made or that God changed His mind, the Society subtly began to back down even further: Typical of this erosion process is the following:

"It is to be expected that Satan will try to inject into the minds of the consecrated the thought that 1925 should see an end of the work, and that therefore it would be needless for them to do more."

Watchtower, 1925, p.262

2I. Was there disappointment among the Society members because of the failures concerning the predicted dates?
Yes. Most definitely and so much so that public admissions were printed: "There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah's faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1914, 1918 and 1925, which disappointment lasted for a time."

Vindication, Vol. I, p.338

2J. Did the Society attempt to deflect criticism by clinging to the dates even though the prophecies concerning them went unfulfilled?
Yes. Basically the Society clung to the position that the dates were valid in spite of the lack of fulfillment: "Later the faithful learned that those dates were definitely fixed in the Scriptures . . . "

Vindication, Vol. I, p. 338-339

2K. Did the Society indicate that as a result of disappointments it had decided to quit setting dates?
Yes. They seemed ready to give up the practice of fixing dates: "...they also learned to quit fixing dates for the future and predicting what would come to pass on a certain date, but to rely (and they do rely) upon the Word of God as to the events that must come to pass."

Vindication, Vol. I, p. 339

2L. Did the Society, nevertheless, continue to imply that certain times and years were scheduled for Armageddon?
Yes. This was done with great care but the implication was always clear: Armageddon was only "months away," that is, less than a year. A typical example of the subtlety of these suggestions is seen in the following report: "Receiving the sift, the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord's provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining months before Armageddon."

Watchtower, Sept. 15, 1942, p.288

2M. Does the Society admit that such prior date setting activities amounted to false prophesying?
Yes. In its own literature it reveals its attitude toward such activities: "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an 'end to the world,' even announcing a specific date. Some have gathered groups of people with them and fled to the hills or withdrawn into their houses waiting for the end. Yet, nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing?

"Missing was the full measure of evidence required in fulfillment of Bible prophecy. Missing from such people were God's truths and the evidence that he was guiding and using them."

Awake, Oct. 8, 1968, p.23

2N. Has the Society concluded its date-setting activities or has it prophesied other dates such as 1975?
It continues submitting new dates. A classic example is an entire article devoted to a prophecy concerning the year, 1975. This was calculated to be the year of the end of this present age. Its title: "Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975?"

Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1968, p.494

2O. Has the Society confirmed the 1975 date as accurate?
Yes. "According to this trustworthy Bible chronology six thousand years from man's creation will end in 1975, and the seventh period of a thousand years of human history will begin in the fall of 1975 C.E."

Life Everlasting—In Freedom of the Sons of God, p.28

2P. What did the Society members believe about the 1975 date? Would it be the end of the present system of things?
Yes. According to Erroll Burton, spokesman for the Paradise Valley Unit of the Jehovah's Witnesses in Arizona, the 1975 date would mean "'A change in the political system of things,' when 'all presently existing influences must be eliminated. After 6,000 years of the deterioration of mankind, there will be 1,000 years of refining mankind...' 'At the end of that period, man will be perfect, as Adam and Eve were before the fall.'"

The Society clearly has instructed its followers that 1975 represents "...the end of the world as we have known it," and it predicts that the "...thousand-year reign of Christ will begin."

The Arizona Republic (newspaper), Aug. 24, 1969

2Q. Did the Society members begin to get rid of their possessions and make special sacrifices in order to prepare for 1975? Did the Society condone this activity?
Yes. In various ways this information was reported and evaluated. The Society's attitude is revealed in the following: "Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world's end."

Kingdom Ministry, May 1974, p.3

3. Has the Society admitted to and covered up false prophecies?
3A. First, does the Society believe that a false prophet could. exist today, and, does it believe that such a prophet coud be an organization rather than just an individual?
Yes. It has gone into some detail in describing the false prophet's activities and purpose: "Similarly, the 'false prophet' is not a person, but is a system or an organization. A 'prophet' claims to have inspired information for the direction of others. A 'false prophet' would mislead others, to turn them away from God and toward false worship."

Watchtower, June 15, 1974, p.381

3B. Does the Society believe that God will reveal false prophets? If so, how will he do this?
Yes. The Society expects God to uncover the true character of false prophets. He "will put all false prophets to shame either by not fulfilling the false prediction of such self assuming prophets or by having His own prophecies fulfilled in a way opposite to that predicted by the false prophets."

Paradise Restored to Mankind, pp. 353-354

3C. How does the Society anticipate false prophets to react to exposure?
"False prophets will try to hide their reason for feeling shame by denying who they really are. They will try to avoid . . . being pronounced spiritually dead by Jehovah's loyal worshipers."

Paradise Restored to Mankind, p. 354

3D. Has the Society admitted to making false prophecies?
Yes. They admitted to looking "forward to 1914 with joyful expectation. When that time came and passed there was much disappointment." In other words, their predicted date concerning the end of the age had come and gone without fulfillment (see II.B. above). They became the subject of criticism "because they had said so much about 1914, and what would come to pass, and their 'prophecies' had not been fulfilled."

Here we have an example of the Society stating categorically that it had delivered a prophecy that time and circumstance demonstrated to be false.

Light, (A Society publication), Book I, p.194

3E. Is the admission of making false prophecies an isolated item, or has a Society leader—under oath in court—ever admitted that the Society made such prophecies?
H.C. Covington, the then Vice President of the Society was on the witness stand in Scotland in 1954. When asked if the Society had "promulgated (i.e., set forth or taught publically) a false prophecy," Covington said "I agree to that." He was then asked if this false prophecy "had to be accepted by Jehovah's Witnesses," to which he replied, "That is correct."

Walsh vs. Clyde, Scotland, Nov. 1954, pp. 340-343

3F. Has the Society tried to reverse itself (on its well-established claim to be a true prophet) since its 1975 prophecy failure?
Yes. The Society now teaches that "Jehovah's Witnesses as modern-day Christians are working hard to get this good news preached to every individual. They do not claim infallibility or perfection. Neither are they inspired prophets."

This is an amazing reversal! For almost 100 years the Society has claimed to be a "true prophet of God" and now they reveal that they are not inspired-leaving us to conclude that their many prophecies have not come from God.

Watchtower, May 15, 1976, p.297

There is your documented false prophet Mosie


Mosies: Most of us have e mailed you personally and shown you where the WBTS says in print that they and they alone are the prophet of Jehovah. You are committing Apostasy if you keep saying that they have the truth when it has been proved to you that they do not.....do not forget, God is watching!