I point out that the Old Testament says some shocking things & people say "Well yeah thats the OLD testament"?

Question

You know, things like beat your slaves, kill anyone who works on Sunday, kill anyone that commits adultery or that is homosexual, and so on....

My question is why the justification? Do you believe that the Old Testament is TRUE or NOT? Either it was written by the hand of God, or it wasn't. To say that the New Testament is "what they REALLY meant", isn't that saying the same thing as, "Silly God, he was such a joker back then!"

Without giving me the very predictable explanation of "it was a question of preparedness, and those were the old days" type of false logic, someone please explain to me how you can belive the Old Testament teachings as religous doctrine? Is killing people based on the day they work, or sexual orientation a sin (New Testament) or isnt it? (Old Testament)

Yes ronnylynn, I am sure you don't appreciate me stating facts or having you think critically about your own religion. Few zealots do...

Martin S, your God does not sound like anyone I would worship. He is like Hitler, only on a larger scale.

Answer 1

I am a Catholic and that is officially a part of our canon,but speaking strictly for myself I consider the OT to be jewish scripture,not Christian and indeed quite antipathetic to Christ's teachings. I personally find it quite repellent. As far as Christians - you don't mention any denomination in particular - kind of fobbing off criticisms based on it,well,I'm sure I'm not the only Christian who takes my view. Just more open about it. Most say things like, "Well,um,I don't actually...uh...well,basically I kind of stick with the Gospels...if you know what I mean..." I prefer to be forthcoming. I think the OT is one of the most horrifying documents ever created by man.

Answer 2

The old testament was a book of law. No man could keep the law thus causing the new testament to come about which is the book of grace. We are no longer under the book of law but the book of grace. In old testament time everytime someone did something wrong they had to sacrafice an animal (innocent blood had to be shed for the atonment of the sin). In the new testament the ultimate sacrafice was made so the grace of God is what we live under now. So while all scripture is indeed inspired by the Lord we are no longer under Law so instead of an eye for an eye (old testament) we are to bless those that curse us bless and do not curse (new testament).

Answer 3

I don't appreciate how you characterize the Bible, Old Testament or not. Yes, there were harsh penalties for sin in the law. It was a civil as well as a religious code.
I thank God that I'm not under the old covenant (that is written in the Old Testament), but the new covenant. I don't have to do the things prescribed by the old covenant but the new (Love God will all you heart, soul, and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself). That however doesn't make the Old Testament false, it just serves a different purpose in my life. Instead of looking at it to see if I'm measuring up, I can assume I'm not measuring up and thank God for sending Christ to take care of it!

Answer 4

God's revelation is progressive. The Old Testament emphasizes the holiness, justice and righteous anger of God. The New Testament emphasizes the kindness, compassion and love of God. Old Testament judgment and killing was a picture of Hell. The book of Revelation describes the judgment of God on the last day. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Answer 5

I believe that when Moses cam down from Mount Zion he had only 10 commandments. The Law was given not because God 'was a joker", but becuase the people needed to see just how IMPOSSIBLE it was for them to be perfect in their own strength. The Law was a REMINDER of sin (just as the 'red light violation $370.00 minimum fine' is today).
Do people still have slaves, or beat them or go out and kill those working on the Sabbath? Probably not. Does the 'red light' sign stop people from running it? Perhaps, but not always.
Why? Because the Law is a REMINDER, a man-enforced set of rules ( that man has compounded) that is imperfect BY DESIGN. It reminds us of our imperfection and death sentence, because of our choice against God, because we ate the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge and now KNOW good and evil.
SIN literally translated means "without" or "apart from".
The Law of SIN demands my death and tells me I cannot be with God, who is righteous and perfect. This LAW was a deed, a writ against all humanity- and it needed an answer.
Is your answer the right one? To point out 'flaws' in the Law doesn't commute your sentence. SIN demands blood!
The Bible says that Satan 'seeks to kill, steal and destroy 'you.
Why? Because DESPITE your choice against God, God STILL loves you and has sent HIS OWN LEGAL REPRESENTATIVE to pay the bail for your sin, to 'cover' the cost of your due, in HIS own blood.
So are you now likely to keep slaves, beat them or kill someone for working on the Sabbath? NO - and NOT just because it is 'the modern day', but because HE has set you free from the sentence of the LAW.
Stick with that instead of looking for a way around it.

Answer 6

It was relevant before Christ came to fulfill the law. I believe the old testament for what it WAS. That was a different time and a different culture. There were so many laws I am surprised that everyone didn't end up dead. I think of the OT as history but just that. Biblical history.

Answer 7

You are clearly thirsty for something as all atheists are when they start asking such questions of questions.

You believe you are being pithy and superior in your thoughts and assumptions. I believe there are no true Atheists.

You believe We have an obsolete and false religigion. We believe we will always be prosecuted as Jesus The Christ Told us we would be.

Your soul is thirsty even if you believe your mind is not. Let go, free your heart, let the hopelessness go...wrap yourself in hope and eternal love instead.

Answer 8

I think that the OT shows what life is like if you don't follow the teachings of Jesus. In the OT racism, bigotry, and violence were rampant. Jesus came and said forgive those who wrong you, put down your sword. Sadly our world looks very much like that of the OT. Hopefully someday things will change.

Answer 9

The logic follows like this: say you have kids and wanted to show your kids that you are merciful, loving and forgiving father but you don't want them to think you are spineless. if you start out showing only those "good" traits they won't think you are loving and forgiving but that is how things are supposed to be.

One can't fully appreciate the full extent of mercy until you understand the full wrath.

Answer 10

"explain to me how you can belive the Old Testament teachings as religous doctrine?"

It's like this. God is the sovereign Lord over all of his creation. He says what He means and He means what He says. He is not subject to any man's judgment for He is the Judge of all things.

When He chose the Israelites to be "his" people through whom He would reveal his salvation to the rest of the world, He gave them specific laws to set them apart from their Pagan neighbors. He demanded that they respect and honor Him.

When people didn't obey, He made examples of them to put fear into the hearts of the others. His thoughts are not our thoughts and his ways are not our ways. He is the almighty God of Heaven who is unfolding his plan of salvation for humanity and if anyone whom He has called to be a part of that plan rebels against his commands then He takes them out of the picture.

It isn't just OT stuff because God doesn't change. In Acts 5, a man and his wife were members of the new church just starting up in Jerusalem. Everybody was selling their possessions and giving all of the money to the Apostles to distribute to others who were in need because they lost their source of income by becoming followers of Jesus. When Annanias and Saphira came with some money from some property that they had sold to donate it and lied about it being all the money that they had received, God struck them dead on the spot.

When the members of the new church in Corinth treated the Lord's supper like a frat party instead of honoring the sacrifice that Jesus had made on their behalf, God killed some of them and caused some others to get sick.

1 Corinthians 11:27Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. 29For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have died. 31But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment. 32When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world.

Knowing who God is and what He is like and what He requires of those whom He has created may be shocking to you, but it's better to be shocked and to repent than it is to mock and be condemned.

Christians are not called to kill people for their sins because God has made a new covenant with mankind. Jesus came and paid the sin debt of all who will believe on his work on the cross on their behalf. God's plan of salvation has been revealed to the planet and so there is no longer a need for a special nation of people who have to live by laws that differentiate them from their pagan neighbors.

But God will still wipe out those Christians who bring reproach upon his name with what they do in their lives.

Hebrews 10:26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people." 31It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.