Theists: Do you regard your beliefs as being logically valid?

Question

It's clearly inconceivable that a human being could just exist, with nothing being responsible for its existence, so how is it logical to suppose that something infinitely more advanced than a human being - an intelligent creator of the universe - does exactly that?

Joel: Faith means an unjustified belief, so it doesn't "go beyond logic", it is in fact entirely worthless.

Shaolt: The trouble with your answer is that there is no reason to believe such a thing as a god exists at all (which is why people make such a big thing of 'faith', as the chap above did for example), so it's just not valid for you to state anything about the nature of said inevident god.

Paul: We already know that existence is random and uncaused, because we see it happen in experiments, so I'm afraid that takes away the foundation of your argument.

Answer 1

No there is no logic to it, nor do 98% of them even know the history or their bibles.

Answer 2

If it is logical that a human being could not exist without a cause for its existence, how much more logical is it that a universe could not exist without a cause! And logically, that cause must not be part of the universe. Therefore, logically, that cause cannot be or have any relationship to matter, energy, time or space. Call it whatever you like, but logic clearly dictates that there must have been an uncaused cause, a primordial cause of all else that exists. The only alternative to an initial uncaused cause is an infinite series of causes stretching back into infinity; but such a series would have to exist in time and space; and therefore that alternative would bring us back to the logically untenable position of infinite matter and energy, existing without a cause. Further, any series existing in time and space must have an initial event. Therefore the only logical position is an initial uncaused cause, existing unrelated to matter, energy, time and space, therefore immaterial and eternal. If you prefer some other name, instead of "God", go for it. But God by any other name would still be the Creator.

Answer 3

Because humankind's contingency is not based on its complexity, but on its being part of the natural order.

"Faith means an unjustified belief, so it doesn't 'go beyond logic', it is in fact entirely worthless."
This is a strawman view of faith. Faith, biblically speaking, is based on the evidence. While it is true that it goes beyond the evidence, it does not go against it.

"it's just not valid for you to state anything about the nature of said inevident god."
Sure there is. Revelation and comparison of our attributes against those of matter. For example, it is more likely that we got intelligence, consciousness, love, etc. from unconscious, unintelligent, indifferent matter or from a being that can give these attributes because said being has them itself?

Answer 4

because this "god" or galactus as he is known to man.

survived the destruction of the previous galaxy by the pheonix force. an entity which exists at all time and none- basically an entity from the fourth dimension and can travel freely among it at will.

The ony other who has had any part of this is chuck norris as he has been able to generate such power with his roundhouse kick that he can temporarily suspend time to send someone further or backwards in it on impact.

galactus survived and was previously gal-an. but as a "new" bieng he had incredible power and from the big bang two entities sprang into existance the same way man evolved so did these "gods". however unlike man, they evolved from the energy released from the big bang. they are eternity, and death. eternity is responsible for all that you see. as is death. they work together to create life.

Answer 5

No, but I don't like the alternative. My logical belief in psychics makes me believe they know and see more than the rest of us, and if they see dead people living right here on another plane why shouldn't we believe them? They have told me so many things that have later came true, that was impossible for them to know about because I didn't even have a clue they would happen. Can you explain that. Not all psychics are fakes and frauds. Not all want money from you. The ones who call themselves spiritualists are mostly ( I believe ) sincere. They don't have a memorized speech, or general thing to say to everyone who comes in the door. They in fact don't have anything to say they just meditate and see what ever they see they are not in control of what they see. That is why they don't win all the lotteries. No one knows about the after life, and we will surely all find out when that day arrives. I just like to think of something nice happening for me instead of just death dust to dust, and 6' under. Have you ever read life after life?
Written I believe by a doctor, a physician. He dealt with many people who had passed and was revived, they all told him the same thing about going threw the long tunnel and the bright light and how good they felt, pain free and they did not want to come back but they had to. It happened to my mother, she had 7 heart attacks before she died. Her doctor said lets just call it a bad dream and forget about it. She didn't want to, and after the 6th heart attack she told us she was going home in 4 days. She died 4 days later, and she went home. The place we came from in the first place. The other side or what ever. We will all go back, we volunteered to come here for God to do His work or what ever He asked of us. When we get back we will remember what it was we came to do. They say this life is very short, and time does not end ever on the other side. I hope what I believe is true, it beats the hell out of 6' under. I'm not an atheist. And I never want to be. Even though I think the bible is a pack of made up lies by the Roman Empire and has continued to change all the years to fit certain religious beliefs. Like keeping a woman in her place. beneath the man. The big shot. The boss. The brain. Like GB our great leader.

Answer 6

Actually icarus62 - Faith is not "unjustified belief"...The correct definitions are listed below -although(if I understand correctly) I think you meant to say it is #2...(teehee)

faith (fth)
n.
1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief, trust.
3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
4. often Faith Christianity The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
6. A set of principles or beliefs.

*edit*
That is to say you think faith is the "same" as #2...the same as...yes...that is funnier than how I originally wrote it. IMO -anyway. :-D

Answer 7

Then you would have to arrive at the conclusion that some things can just exist, without a creator. Some theists believe God existed always and never was made. Yah it does look like saying you need a creator is contradictory if you believe God always existed.

Answer 8

I'm not going to divulge my religion, because that is not required to answer this question, so I'm going to play, paron the pun, "devil's advocate."
The earth is 4.5 billion years old, the universe is estimated at 5 billion years old. During this time of "planetary and solor origination" comets carying ice crystals colided with a very young and turbulent earth - those comet ice crystals became a part of this planet and due to the process of evaporation
and precipitation over a long time, created our oceans. Anyone 'should' know that anywhere there is water, there is a very good chance of life...which is why scientists exploring the solar system are excited about finding ice caps on Mars and a frozen surface on Ganymede and Europa, two of the moons of Jupiter. Water plus electricity (lightning) can equal very basic life.
Back to the 4.5 billion year old earth...that is a VERY long time for life to evolve and adapt to a constantly changing planet that is just close enough to recieve warmth and nurturing from a star (our sun). Crack open your history books, Darwin, and basic books on evolution and you will discover the "logical" history of our planet and all of its inhabitants from protoplasm and bacteria to dogs, cats and people.

Answer 9

I don't really understand your question, but let me address the part about logic in general.

Faith is about trusting something you can't prove with a syllogism.

Having said that, though, I don't think that God is confined by what we call "logic."

Maybe God works in a logic that is too big, too advanced, too complicated for human minds to apprehend.

I don't think God had a beginning. If that is what you are saying, then I agree with you.

Thomas Aquinas called God "the first mover."

Answer 10

Yes.

Faith goes beyond logic, but faith and logic can be complementary.

It all depends on in what you belief and your skills in logic.

Icarus: the dictionary.com definition of "faith" is "confidence or trust"; it says nothing about "unjustified belief".

(In the same was as a car exists because somebody built it, the universe exists because G-d created --and maintains-- it.)

Answer 11

Your assertion seam fair logic. I guess we all in fact would of been atheists if God would of never chose to reveal Himself.
And if there is no intelligent design then how can I even dare to pretend I am intelligent if in fact I am the result of blind evolution? How can I be so sure I am able to question about my root?
Bible in fact say in Psalm 53:1 that "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good."
I hope you'll find the true answers to your questions.

Best regards.