Creationists: can we talk about the human eye again?

Question

I'm hoping we're now over this irreducible complexity nonsense (if not: http://www.google.com/custom?q=eye+irreducible+complexity&sa=Search&sitesearch=www.talkorigins.org ) so can I ask whether you are wearing glasses or contact lenses? Chances are you have a pair of one or the other.

Now why would this perfect designer create something and give it imperfect vision in many cases? I am sure some of you are tempted to throw this on original sin. It's the safe fallback, isn't it? Okay, but then, won't God be pissed we correct this 'punishment' by wearing glasses or contacts?

Schneb: you'll note I have already addressed your lame "original sin" in the question because I saw it coming a mile away.

Answer 1

Of course!
Any fool can see it's just a coincidence!

Answer 2

Sure. We can talk about the human eye again..But don't recall you and I discussing this prior to this day.
Yes. You may ask whether I am wearing glasses or contact lenses. I have no problem with you asking such a question.
I'm not sure why the Perfect Designer would create something and give it imperfect vision in many cases. Because sometimes the Perfect Designer creates something and gives it such excellent vision - the reasoning of which is just as curious as why there would be imperfect vision.
I don't know that original sin is a safe fallback.
I don't know if God will be p*ssed if we correct this "punishment" by wearing glasses or contacts. But I understand from reading His Word (*and a little personal experience*) that He doesn't particularly enjoy being mocked or being questioned in His sovereign right to create whatever He sees fit in whatever fashion He so chooses.

Thanks for the question.

((Thank you for noticing Randy guy!!)) For a minute there I thought you might be a little off your game. ;-)

Answer 3

Wow...

I just read through all of the answers given to this question and I can't for the life of me figure out why there wasn't a single christian (*) who had the guts, (or brains, or honesty,) enough to simply say "I don't effin' know."

There are two distinct questions asked here... each calls for speculation and there is little else that could even remotely satisfy as a fundamentally confirmed and bottom line absolute "yes" or "no"... The answer can only be guessed at... Why would he design a flaw.. ? Who knows? Would he be upset...? Who the heck could know that and who cares?

Now... here's the deal, folks, (and I'm talk in' to the Christians,) ... it's time to stop makin-up a lot of hooey and BS just to put up a half-assed defense for god. If your god is real and if he feels like it, won't he defend himself? ...like toss a few lightening bolts around..?

And NOW... here's why it's high time you start doing things according to this good advice: You've defended god so often and so vigorously and so loudly that you no longer make any sense at all... STOP. You'll all soon lose every ounce of honest you've ever had by keeping up this goofy defense posture. If you keep making up BS for the sake of god... you'll be competing for the title of the most famous set of hypocrites and liars and BSers the world has ever seen.

If he is... let him be. If he isn't ... let him go. It's up to him to carry his own dang cross.

[][][] r u randy? [][][]
.
(*) Pardon me Mrs M... You did, in fact, answer that you just didn't know and I over looked you... (and, in fact, I should have gaven you a thumbs up.)

Answer 4

All mutations are either repetition or omission of old data. For example, a cow being born with 5 legs, or a fruit fly with no wings. No mutation will ever add new information that never existed in it before, such as giving the cow wings. Your argument from homology can be explained by common design, not common ancestry. The same Guy who created the pig also created us, but the two are not related. <> This is a faith-based statement. You don't know that. Also, concerning the eggs, God gave different reproductive systems to different classes of animals because they have a different lifestyle and habitat. It's not because we have a "common ancestry" with them. EDIT: @ Reagent - your examples are just as I said - they are examples of repetition of old information. You have just shown a couple of ways that information can be repeated, but still no "new" information has appeared (information that didn't already exist in the parent DNA). Also, "recombination" is just that - mixing up of old information. Nothing new is added.

Answer 5

Someone will cite "The fall"
to cover imperfect eyes, painful childbirth for women and the position of the male prostate.

It's almost as good as catch-22 for covering everything.
If it's good it's God, and if it isn't it's the sin and the fall.

It can't be refuted as it covers every case.
But as evidence of itself being true it has no value at all.

And I agree that irreducible complexity does not apply to the eye. And I know eyes better than most, as an optometrist.

Answer 6

Well congratulations, a well asked question, a decent question, one I had to actually think about for a couple of minutes.

No , not original sin, Free will. God created us , but he did not make us perfect , in fact we are not supposed to be perfect we are to strive to be perfect, but perfection comes only thru him upon our salvation and entrance into eternity.

OK the religious stuff set aside , lets talk about being a designer. I happen to be one by the way. Did you know that flaws are built into designs on purpose so that failure can be predicted and controlled. For instance the hood of your car. There are weak points built into the frame work of the hood so that in an accident the hood will fold in half. This prevents the hood from separating from its hinges and coming thru the windshield like a guillotine. So what would appear to the unknowing as a flaw is in fact an intentional part of the design. Guess that's all I have to say.

Answer 7

I'll try.
God created the world and life perfect.
Sorry, but original sin caused God to allow death, which means things will degrade with time. Genetic mutations and copying errors, and the winding down of living things and the universe since creation.
The evolution that is OBSERVED in nature confirms this - useful genetic information is never gained only lost.
But don't despair all will be restored.

Answer 8

hmmm.....typical skeptic. why would anyone use an eyeglass, since it is somehow a punishment? hmm....or lets just generalize your question....why does God lets us suffer...or maybe does God created mankind for some kind of trip....and maybe you could come up to a conclusion that in deed....God is not God at all because He is cruel....hows that.

Earths design and all of the creation were designed to be perfect. but because of sin everything went wrong (i know you want to ask again). Now, why would an all powerful God that you believe that created everything would give His only son to die on the cross. isnt it insanity to give your own son for someone who is not worthy at all, or is there anyone worthy of your son? wearing eyeglasses adds hope to a defected eye. just like Christ, since this world is doomed to destruction....He is the hope.

now, i have a question to you....if you got blind, or even worse, you had an accident that put you on a 50-50 situation....do you know where're you going to spend your second life....? answer this, and id be willing to answer every question you have.

Answer 9

Actually, Schneb, it is not ridiculous. We have numerous examples throughout nature of "eyes" that are not as developed as our, but still serve a purpose, from light sensitive cells on some types of deep sea fish to a pinhole lens on modern Nautilus'.

You couldnt be more wrong. But, its not like you'd care, right??

Answer 10

This irriducible compexity argument just doesn't work. If you truely believe that the eye, flagelum motor or whatever is irriducibly complex, than god has to more so doesnt he?

I know I will get the brainless "god is eternal"
horsecrap, which is the weakest logic and argument possibly ever made.

Answer 11

God doesn't take joy in our suffering. Yes, poor vision is a result of the curse. However, that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to alleviate the curse's effects. Jesus healed ppl. Obviously, trying to reverse the effects of the curse is a good thing that God Himself did.