Undeniable evidence of descent from ancestral apes?

Question

I'm looking more for an honest answer from a creationist but feel free to chip in regardless of your beliefs or opinions~

We have 23 pairs of chromosomes while apes have 24. The visible reason we have 23 is because in our ancestry, 2 pairs of chromosomes of an ancestral ape mutated and became fused together to create a single pair of chromosomes that we see in our DNA.

Now you might think, this is purely speculation because the two pairs of chromosomes looks slightly similar. You'd be wrong.

Chromosomes have caps on each end called telomeres that are used to prevent data loss and also function as 'countdown timers' for a cell's lifespan.

Now, in our apparently fused pair of chromosomes, if you check at the point where the first non-fused chromosome ends in apes, you find two sets of telomere caps - one ending the current chromosome and one beginning the next. This is undeniable proof that the chromosome was originally two parts.

Now the question is this. If those fused chromosomes are considered as 2 pairs, giving us a total of 24 pairs of chromosomes - the same number as apes - is the fact that we have about 95% identical DNA to these apes (particularly chimpanzees) completely shrugged off by you? Do you consider it irrelevant and consider it to show no evidence of common descent?

Also, if you disagree, please explain why you disagree with the evidence presented? Not just "I believe that God made me, I didn't come from some ape."

By the way, anyone who IS interested in at least reading more about this can find more in depth information here:
http://www.evolutionpages.com/chromosome_2.htm

Look guys, if you're gonna ignore the question and evidence I presented you may as well not even answer.

Yes, we do have similarities in DNA with every living thing, but no other animal/plant comes anywhere near 95% identical, basically the same chromosomes and same placement with the evidence of chromosonal fusing. What you're arguing is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Answer 1

Look, we're clearly descended from a common ancestor as apes.

But if a creationist is willing to doubt all the other evidence, this really doesn't get you any further. The standard response is something like: "God/Satan put those telomere end caps there to test our faith."

An ID type might also try to respond that the telomeres are doing something important in the system, even if we don't understand what, and that is evidence that it was designed--no way something so perfect could have come up on its own.

They might even try to argue that the fact that the two are similar is proof of an intelligent deity using the same materials for both species somehow, like a tailor reusing part of a pattern. They won't acknowledge the far simpler explanation of evolution.

Arguing with creationists is pointless. They don't listen to reason or stray from their talking points.

Nice bit of info, though. Thanks for sharing.

Answer 2

Scientists Continually change their views of the human tree. They also change their views of Austalopithecus, Dryopithecus (6 million years ago) and argue among themselves. Did Australopithecus africanus exist at the same time as robustus? Did Cro-Magnon drive out Neanderthals or co-exist in the late stages? Did Neanderthals become extinct or merge with Cro-Magnon? These are the questions brought up !? There are different types of creationists just as- I'm sure you're aware- there are different types of evolutionists. I think you are stereotyping. I don't deny any evidence. I try to fit all evidence, Biblical or otherwise, into some framework. I'm also aware of the scientific assumptions involved. When I was taking archaeology and anthropology (20 courses), it was aggravating seeing the following qualifiers: "presumed, apparently, the theory is, likely, there are two schools of thought, the hypothesis is"....well, you get the point. I began to wonder what could be said with ABSOLUTE certainty. I believe each earth time period or "aeon" was 7,000 years long. Therefore, the seven days times seven thousand would give 49,000 years the PRESUMED date of Cro-Magnon arrival or homo sapiens sapiens. That would fit with all known "facts" . It is aIso the known boundary for C-14 dating. I'm aware of seventeen other dating methods. I hope this helps! I've studied this a long time. I would submit to you the evidence is NOT as clear as gin. Otherwise, why the dissension? Why the questions? The scientists cannot even agree when early man first got to this continent. I've seen estimates from 70,000 BP to 12,000 BP- a huge time span ! HELP! Edit: P. S. Why the thumbs down? Do you have any facts? I wasn't there! I'll listen!

Answer 3

Wow! I knew (some time ago) there was speculation that a fused pair of chromosomes was what separated us from the apes. You've confirmed this prior speculation was true and the presence of telomeres at the site of the fusion is undeniable confirmation. Now the burning question is, precisely when did this chromosome fusion occur? I'm off to follow your link. Thanks!!!

Answer 4

So humans are related to Apes but that does not prove a thing about where we came from. Or why we exist. But then there is the Chuck Norris factor, with a beard he looks just like one of those Apes in the movie, "Planet of the Apes."

Maybe the chromosomes have more to do with where we are going then where we came from.

Surely, though, if there were no Apes there would never have been any theory of evolution. A simple fact. Until 1975 the theory was all about finding the missing link. Then the theory changed to a common ancestor.

But if I and others agree that the chromosome factor is real and proof, so what? What would that knowledge provide me?
NOTHING.

Answer 5

it's easily denied, as you see above, by simply ignoring the evidence and the argument. one places ones fingers in one's ears and begins singing the ritual chant, which is always something like "lalalaaaa i can't hearrr youuu"

one can go further than you have here, and compare human, chimp, gorilla and orangutan chromosome structure like so:

http://www.gate.net/~rwms/hum_ape_chrom.html

and further than that, one can also compare the other chromosomes among various ape species, the same pattern is seen no matter how much detail one considers. it's really as you say quite undeniable if the evidence is actually examined.

i think an important point to make is that it doesn't matter what order the genes are on the chromosome. the genes could be randomly shuffled in millions of different ways and the organism's phenotype (physical appearance) would be unchanged. the fact that supposedly god chose to write those genomes in the one in a million (or whatever the odds, they may be even higher) way that we'd be forced to conclude common descent makes god a liar if that isn't what actually happened. are these people worshiping yahweh or loki, one wonders?

Answer 6

Preaching to the choir here. I agree with you. I simply do not understand how Christians can turn a blind eye that we have 97% of the same genes as Chimps. Granted that even the reamining 3% is a LOT of genes, but wow, 97%? (I think its 94% similarity with Oragatans).
But even stranger is that we have some genes in common with just about every other life form on this planet, even trees, rats and dolphins.
How in your right mind can you simply ignor that? I do not understand Christianities thoughts in that matter.

By the way, you get a star...good question!

Answer 7

I see no problem believing in evolution AND in God. I think God's smart enough to make the world work in whatever way science can figure out. But where did it all come from? The only answer to that question is... "from something greater." I call that "something greater" God.

Answer 8

Randomness is what I would expect out of random chance life evolution... not pattern.

Pattern that closely repeats across life-forms is what I would look for as evidence that a Creator created each variety of life form. That reflects thought and design.

Answer 9

1) We humans also share a high DNA % with trees and worms, and that does not prove that we "evolved" from trees or worms.

2) The main difference between humans and apes is not physical, but spiritual.

Answer 10

God creating everything with a perfect order; Human beings can't descent from an animal as true as animals can't descent from a plant and so on...
PS: are working for Mr. Darwin?