Is free will imaginary?

Question

aren't most of our responses to various actions predetermined? we're a product of our environment or some crap like that. lol.

so, when we make choices, couldn't it be said that most of of those choices are already based on a behavioral trait we picked up from someone else much earlier on in life?

everything is everyone else's fault. lol.

what I'm leading up to is, how can god send people to hell just because he gave us this free will? clearly, much, if not all of free will is compromised.

Answer 1

Free will is alive and well and you just used yours to type this.
He gives us Free Will to follow Him and obey His rules, if there was no Free Will, then Atheists would not be here nor any other religion
as far a behavioral trait goes, you could say that it also goes back to the way you where raised, and many who are Non-Believers where in fact raised to believe, but Choose to believe differently as they got older

Answer 2

It's not so much imaginary as meaningless.

If we try to pin down what might be meant by the idea of free will, it melts away and slips through our fingers. Superficially it means the ability to make free choices, but what exactly is free about a choice? If the actual choice we make at any given point is the result of our innate nature, plus environmental influences, plus all of our life experiences, then it really comes down to cause and effect - a bit of this influence, a bit of that influence, factor in how happy or grumpy we happen to be that day, and out pops a choice, like plugging numbers into a spreadsheet and seeing the result appear at the bottom. It's hard to see that such a choice can be called 'free' in any significant sense - at least, not without saying that therefore tornados and rivers and volcanoes also have free choice. We are certainly complex, and hard to predict, but then so is the weather, and we don't therefore conclude that the weather has free will.

Is cause and effect the only principle to consider? Well, if we live in a non-deterministic universe, as seems to be the case, then we might also suppose that there is a genuine randomness which means that cause and effect can never be determined with 100% accuracy, but this doesn't obviously save the concept of free will either - to have our thoughts and actions influenced by entirely random factors over which we have no control would seem to *detract* from our free will rather than providing a sound basis for it... and again, we would be no different from any other physical process in that respect.

So, the idea of free will would appear to be not so much false, as simply unintelligible. If we are part of the material universe, made of atoms and molecules, subject to the same forces as any other physical object, then how can we claim to have some property that nothing else in the known universe possesses? What can legitimately be called 'free' about being driven by cause and effect and/or random chance?

Well, one thing we do have, which other complex natural phenomena do not, is intelligence. Specifically, we have the ability to anticipate the likely consequences of our actions, and the tendency to modify our behaviour accordingly. A hurricane moving across the North Atlantic towards the coast of the USA might continue on its path, quickly lose its energy over the land and dissipate, or it might veer away and intensify over the ocean, but it is strictly governed by the forces of nature - it has neither the knowledge of what could happen to it nor the ability to change it. In contrast, human beings have the unique ability to foresee what is likely to happen, and that foresight is then an additional influence - usually a very large influence - on subsequent events. In principle there is nothing to stop me plunging my hand into a pan of boiling water, but my anticipation of the consequences far outweighs any inclination to try it. It's still the principle of cause and effect governing events, so in that strict sense the outcome is no more 'free' than the fate of the hurricane, but the anticipation and the will to act on it do make human actions qualitatively different from unthinking physical processes.

I think this is the way to resolve the apparent paradox that, on the one hand, we know we are made of the same stuff and are subject to the same laws of physics as any other object, and on the other hand that it *feels* like we have a freedom that inanimate objects and systems simply do not have. This way of accounting for free will is perfectly consistent with our current understanding of the material universe, it doesn't demand any exotic new kind of physics and it certainly doesn't require us to have any mystical component that influences the material universe but is not part of it (e.g. a 'soul' or a 'spirit').

Answer 3

It's not even worth worrying about. If we DO have free will, then god CAN NOT exist. If we DO NOT have free will, then there's nothing we can do about it, anyway.

If you've got an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent god, then you can't... and don't... have FREE WILL. Actually, omnipotence and omnipresence are irrelevant... 'Omniscience' is logically incompatible with 'free will', and is sufficient to put the lid on 'free will' all by itself. It is not necessary for god to intervene in order to negate 'free will' as a possibility.

If we really DO have 'free will', then an omniscient god is logically excluded. The logical fallacy lies in the premise that if god is omniscient, all outcomes are already known to god... everything that you think, decide and do... and everything that you WILL think, decide, and do.

For a (supposedly) omniscient being, all of existence over all of time is laid out as a tapestry before him... past, present and future, down to the smallest detail of material, of thought and of deed, and all is constantly in his awareness. There is no past, present and future from that perspective... there is only an eternal 'now'.

If that is the case, since god already knows everything that will happen, then everything is already decided... and as we go along through life, we are merely doing what has already been seen by god. Since god knows and sees everything that will happen, NOTHING that we think or do can be contrary to what god already sees and knows. We might THINK we have free will... but since we are merely acting out what god already sees and knows, then this can be no more than an ILLUSION of free will.

Put another way, if you come to a point of decision, you have no choice but to take the path that god already knows you will take... there is no other option. That works all the way down the path of cause-and-effect... and, along the way, it even casts doubt on the validity of the concept of cause and effect. I don't want to get into that, though... thinking about it makes my hair hurt.

So, imagine that since before time began, since before the universe came into existence, god has 'known' that you would come to a point of decision at some spatial and temporal coordinates, and that faced with the possible paths A and B, you would take path A.

Now, during the course of your life, you arrive at those spatial and temporal coordinates where this choice exists. You evaluate the potential outcomes, and you have it in your head that you have 'free will', and thus, you are free to choose between path A and path B. However, since god is 'omniscient', and god 'knows' that you will take path 'A', then path B IS NOT an option... it IS NOT a matter of choice. OF NECESSITY, you WILL take path A. Not 'must'... not 'can'... you WILL take path A. You DO NOT HAVE a choice. Path B is NOT an option... it is not even a POSSIBILITY. You can only have the ILLUSION that you are free to choose.

So, either god is omniscient OR we have free will. It is QUITE IMPOSSIBLE for BOTH of these conditions to coexist.

The only way out of this logical dilemma is to limit god's power; i.e., start taking away things that god can see and know, until we get to a point where free will BECOMES a possibility. But when we start doing that, then he ceases to be omniscient... and thus ceases to be a 'supreme being'.

So... free will is an impossibility concomitant with an omniscient diety. The following sums up the possibilities:

1. There is no omniscient diety... therefore, the whole argument is stupid and irrelevant (most likely).

2. IF we possess 'free will' AND god exists, THEN, of necessity, it is IMPOSSIBLE that god is omniscient. (This does not preclude the notion of 'god'... it just means that he can't be as 'supreme' as one might think he is... or wish him to be.) You are (logically) obliged to acknowledge that god CAN NOT BE all knowing... and since omniscience is one of the things that makes god 'all powerful', then this means that god CAN NOT BE omnipotent, either.

3. IF god exists AND god is omniscient THEN, OF NECESSITY, it is IMPOSSIBLE that that we have free will, and you are (metaphorically speaking) nothing more than a piece on god's eternal game board; and, thus, "... man is not responsible for his actions."

Personally, I vote for number 1. You can pick any one you want... but YOU MUST PICK ONE, because there are NO OTHER possible outcomes... NO OTHER logically valid choices.

It is unfortunate (for the Abrahamic death cults of desert monotheism) that the concepts of god were solidified as dogma a few thousand years before the philosophical discipline of 'logic' was dreamed up by the Greeks. Those that concocted the religion did not have access to the intellectual tools that would have enabled them to realize that they had 'screwed the pooch' with respect to assigning god their imaginary god his impossible attributes. It wasn't until the 4th century that this logical impossibility garnered serious attention, and churchmen got their theological 'dancin' shoes' on, trying to weasel their way out of the logical dilemma.

They did not succeed, and this issue continues to be debated even 'til this day. This logical dilemma (and the resulting 'cognitive dissonance') was a key element in some of the various 'heresies' that were spawned in the early days of Christianity.

However, the simple observation that these impossible beliefs still exist shows that this does not seem to have been a very big hindrance, under the simple expediency that "There is no problem so big that we cannot ignore it, until it will go away." Too bad for them, though... it DOESN'T go away.

Corporate religion is helped along by the fact that most 'believers' do not employ logic or critical thinking skills; heck... that's why they're believers in the first place. If they employed logic and critical thinking, they WOULD NOT BE believers. So, even though these concepts create a logical impossibility, it does not seem to present a significant problem for them.

Answer 4

It's your decision. It's your choice. Your heart, mind, and will were corrupted by the sin of Adam. You habitually choose evil. However, no matter what your propensity, in the final analysis, it is you who sins. God is under no obligation to rescue you from the natural consequences of your free choices.

Answer 5

Good point. However, even though almost all of us do have some baggage we learned along the way in life, God did give most of us a brain with which to search for the truth and to seek the answers of what's right or wrong for ourselves. I believe those that never search for the truth or do not try to live by what they know to be right or wrong are doomed. But those that try their best, even if they make mistakes, and those that search for the answers and constantly try to grow as a person are the ones that are more likely to go to heaven.

Of course, all of this is my opinion, but I do believe in God but I do not believe in religion. My conscience will not allow me to believe a preacher over what my own brain tells me is right. Human beings are fallible and since preachers are human, I believe they can and often are wrong. God gave me a good working brain and that is what I trust and use to search for my own truth. If I violate what I think is wrong, then that is a sin on me. If I do what I think is right, even if the church says its wrong, I think that is NOT a sin.

Like I said, just my opinion.

Answer 6

How a person views free will may be imaginary. For instance we are not all free to take a ride on Air Force One even though we may want to. God limits our free will by limiting our circumstances and what we might have to face in this life.

1 Corinthians 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

But we have the freedom to choose to respond to those circumstances in which we do find ourselves even though it may require a struggle.

Galatians 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

Answer 7

First of all you fùcking piece of sh!t, God doesn't send people to hell, you send yourself to hell. God is only there to guide us, what we do is our own problem. Life is but a test. Needless to say more. Try your smart4ss comments elsewhere

Answer 8

free will is not compromised..it is free will....people chose every action they make...God does not predetermine anyones moves...He knows...but this does not mean He determined it......the only predestination is our freedom in Christ when we chose it...then the fruits of this decision are predetermined only by Gods promises....not by predestination...Christians still have free will ....the promise of God is when a person surrenders to Christ and it is a true surrendering..the results will be peace, joy, truth and hope...again...these are the results of choice....Gods promises are true....people need to chose them to receive them...†

Answer 9

I thought we got free will because Eve ate the apple, but i have never ready the Bible, never will read it and do not care for it. You make a interesting point.

Answer 10

Free will is hardcoded into every one of us. We use it everyday, answer the phone or not answer the phone, eat cake or not, have a shower or not, or bigger scale, who to marry, whether to get a mortgage.
Free will is a fundamental human instinct.