Some questions?

Question

I am very eager to hear how some of you seem to think 10 inch subwoofers are so much snappier and faster responding then say a 15 or an 18 inch subwoofer?

I would also be interested in hearing how many of you "top contributors" have actually tried the equipment you like to bash so much?


Personally I stopped coming to answer peoples questions because the answers that I saw honestly disturbed me about how some of you think you know alot when you really are just giving bad advise! Points on a stupid answer forum aren't worth giving half the answers I have seen....


Thanks

If you honestly think Sony is a good product then you really have NO experience with anything else. No true audiophile or even someone with decent hearing can say they actually sound good.


I think it was metalman.... just to let ya know the amp doesn't really have anything to do with SQ.... it is mainly your headunit and speakers/subs.... if the amp is doing its job right all it does it amplify the sound and gives nothing to it and takes nothing away.


Why have I been answering them in the last few days? Simple I was told thru the grage vine that its even worse around here now.


For most of you (not sparky I already know his answer) whats more important, actually answering it correctly or the points you receive? I am guessing that orange little badge is going to some heads here.

Thats a good question as why ppl spend thousands for an amp that has the same THD rating as say power acoustik..... does make you wonder why ppl spend so much on an amp that say for subs doesn't matter at all for a THD rating.... but I suppose you don't believe that either.



I am not saying a 15 or an 18 is better then a 10.... I am saying there is no difference

Answer 1

well i would not say that they are "so much snappier" i mean how authoritative a sub responds is certainly more about the motor assembly than anything else. however many times manufactures use the same motor for a couple different cone sizes, and in those cases i would say yes a smaller cone will respond faster with the same motor assembly and same power than a larger cone would. It certainly does not mean all 10" drivers are more responsive than 18" and i hope i never have implied that. If i honestly felt that way i would have used 2 8" subs instead of the single 12 that i am using. as far as bashing brands.. i personally try not to do that, i will however offer up my opinion on items i have heard, and i am sure to make it clear it is a opinion only.

With that said, i do know where you are coming from there are people on hear that are "supporter" of particular brands and setups, and seam to push them even if it means bashing something they have never likely even heard. But in the defense of many, i suspect are like myself, a car audio nerd, and I like to hear new products that are out and I do go to many shops on a fairly regular basis, so i am familiar with many brands and their sound characteristics.

PS - metallman56, Well said... i agree with your philosophy, and many of your opinions, although i do happily own a alpine amp.

PSS - A amp doesn't make the sound any better or worse? yet the sony amp that sparky has sounds like crap? your talking in circles dude...and i firmly believe a amp makes a difference, i HAVE heard the differnce myself , its easy to pick up if it is surrounded by decent equipment. and to say amps all sound alike is implying that the millons of people who spend more on amps for good sound quality are all ignorant and you are smarter than that.... now whos got something going to thier head... dude, you need to chill and understand people have opinions, different opinions, and unless you have scientific proof to proove what you state, then your opinion is of no more value than anyone elses. Your on here preaching about name bashing and throwing around opinions, yet your doing precisly that.

cplkittle makes a valid point about terminology, I mean when we say it is "warmer sounding" we certainly dont mean the speakers are radiating heat, right? I think saying a ten inch is more responsive, is a better way to say "faster" but to each is own.

Answer 2

I've never made any such claims about 10" vs. larger subs, and I do my best not to make broad statements, good or bad, about any particular brand name. I know that different brands change ownership very frequently in the car audio world, and names that were great yesterday may be garbage today, or vice versa. Also, there are some companies that produce good and poor products under the same name.

The biggest difference between a 15" sub and a 10" sub is that the larger cone moves more air, resulting in a louder output. The smaller sub can't get as loud, but doesn't require nearly as large a box, which can often be a major consideration in a car that still needs to hold people and cargo. When you think about it, it's kind of silly to say that a large sub "doesn't move as fast". If the speaker is producing a 50Hz tone, then it's moving back and forth fifty times each second whether it's a 10" sub or an 18" sub. If it's moving more slowly, then it's not playing a 50Hz tone.

Maybe the myth crept in because most of the people buying 15" and 18" subs are the ones who are just trying for maximum bass, and not necessarily a balanced or accurate sound. That doesn't mean it's impossible to get good sound quality with a 15, or extreme SPL with several 8" subs.
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P.S. I'd also like to point out that it's possible to disagree with someone without starting a blood feud. If you don't agree with something I post, then go ahead and post a different answer, or send me an e-mail telling me why I'm wrong. I won't grow to twice my size and turn green; if you can keep from making personal insults, then I don't get offended at arguments. I've disagreed with something just about all of the regular posters have said, at one time or another.

Answer 3

10" vs 18" sub...
10's are 'faster' because they can reproduce higher frequencies (they move faster to achieve the higher frequencies). I have said this several times, but you have to understand that we are not answering questions asked by audiophiles, we are answering questions like " what sub should I get for my first car?". 'Faster' is a description that best suits what the listener hears. 60Hz is 60Hz, there is not a fast and slow 60Hz. I use the term freely because it is simple and descriptive to what the listener can compare it to.
Another big factor is that the bass drum in a trap set is not going to produce a 30Hz tone, rather a 60-80Hz tone. The bass drum is a quick note, the notes you find in rap or hip hop are not quick notes, they are long drawn out 30-40Hz computer generated tones. You would not expect an 18" sub to as cleanly reproduce the 60-80Hz bass drum note, and likewise, a 10" sub can not produce the 30-40Hz tone as effectively as the 18.

To please you, I will now respond with:
" A 10" sub can more efficiently and cleanly reproduce the faster notes of higher frequencies such as that of floor toms, bass drums, and bass guitars than an 18" sub can. And likewise, an 18" sub can more efficiently reproduce the slower or lower frequency notes found in rap"

no... screw it.. I'm still going to say "A 10 is faster." Because that is what people can relate to. This is not rocket science, and telling people that is not going to damage any equiptment.


As far as testing equiptment that we badmouth, I have played around with car audio since I was 16 (15 years now) I have worked at several car audio shops for the last 6 years. I have installed everything from Zapco to Boss, Denon to Durabrand.

Sony is not a bad brand, and when you have to work with the $125 budget some people have, audiophile equiptment is not even a consideration.

Your quote:

"I think it was metalman.... just to let ya know the amp doesn't really have anything to do with SQ.... it is mainly your headunit and speakers/subs.... if the amp is doing its job right all it does it amplify the sound and gives nothing to it and takes nothing away."

Then why the hell does an amplifier have a THD rating?
Why do people pay thousands more for high quality low THD amplifiers? No one buys Audison or McIntosh because they have cool chrome flames on them, they buy them because of their quality.

As far as little orange badges, you can have mine. I don't need it to prove I know what I am talking about.

Answer 4

It's not so much a 10" is "faster" but it doesn't push as much air as the larger subs.

You'll notice I don't give "brand" recommendations because it's ALL a matter of preference.

"Bad advice" is the responsibility of the asker to confirm or dismiss.

__________

A quote from you, "Sony is a BS company don't bother wasting your money on it.... "

I'm not sure what issues you had with Sony, but I have to say my Sony amp has been pushing strong for 3 years...

Oh, and the whole CEA-2006 compliancy is a way to ensure the product you buy pushes the power stated. No one ever said it makes the amp better, just more accurate in the specs.

Answer 5

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Answer 6

the way i think about 10s 12s 15s and 18s is that they are all good for differn't sounds. what i mean is that 18s are better for deep bass but when it comes to more middle bass then they are not as good, they just cant move in and out fast enough to do higher bass properly, where as 10s are good for mid bass, but i don't think that they can properly hit the very lows. the way i look at it is that if your just going to have one kind of sub you need to make it only for low bass or only for mid bass, cause if you try to make it do both it just sounds like crap when a low tone and a mid tone both try to hit. the way i do it is that i have 2 12s hitting the very lows ( from 18hrtz up to 60hrtz) then i have 2 10s hitting from 60hrtz up to 150hrtz. that way the low bass hits the 12s while the sharper bass notes hit the 10s. soon i will have some 8s too to break up the spectrum even more.

Answer 7

yea if you stop coming to answers why have you answered 20 in the last week 8 in the last 24 hours.
and sparking I hear you on Sony the 10" 250w rms subs I have are 5 years old and I run 380w rms to each one, the 12" i have had for 6 months that is 380w rms that I run 600w rms to.

Answer 8

snappier or faster? i'm not sure about that. i would say a 10" is more accurate and tighter then most 15" woofers. i mean lets face it. some 15" woofers just sound like butt. which is probably where they got there bad rep. the've gotten a lot better over the years, but back in the 90s i couldnt even name a 15" woofer that sounded half way decent. thats probably where the bias comes in.

personally i pretty much only bash 2 brands. well, 3. those are Alpine, Kicker, and JL. why?

i feel everyone and there mom loves Alpine. no one even bothers listening to anything else, if they see a Alpine logo on anything its automatically good. i too feel for this about bought a pair of Type R 6x9s. the mids and highs were pretty good, but they had LESS BASS then my stock speakers. so i took them out and got a pair of Pioneer Premiers for cheaper. they sounded just as good in the highs and mids, but had lows as well. the more Alpine i previewed, the more i noticed how much bass they didnt have. there subs are ok, but there are better subs out there. when people are asking a Alpine question, i tell them to look around and give them other brands that will be just as good for a lesser price, or are better then Alpine. i hope more and more people see that.

Kicker. yeah i know you like Kicker, but i havent had a good experiance with them. there amps that everyone talks about just stop working after about a year. at one time i had 4 kicker amps, and after a year 2 of them didnt work anymore. i sold one, cause it wasnt giving me the SQ i wanted for my fronts. and the 4th is in my buddys car powering his subwoofer. its still working today. needless to say i wasnt too impressed with Kicker amps. there speakers are about the exact opposite of Alpine. they have good bass, but lack in the mids and highs. as far as subs go, i think the square idea is dumb, and its more of a selling point then a performace point. the square subs, IMO, dont sound good at all. there very sloppy. sure they hit really hard, and get pretty loud, but they dont sound good doing so. and that just turns me off when it comes to a subwoofer. so if someone just wanted to be loud, then i guess i might not have a problem with a L7 or a Solo x, or even a L5. i might try to recomend something for a better price, like TC Sounds, or Image Dynamics, or Pioneer Premier. i also dont mind telling them that Kicker doesnt hold the SPL world record. that belongs to Pioneer.

JL. i used to just hate JL. reason being is cause, much like Alpine, if anything had a JL logo on it, it was just automatically gods gift to Earth. it drove me nuts. what i didnt realize at the time, was that it is pretty good stuff. for the price its a total rip off, but yeah its actually good product. i think i was biased twords them. not so much any more. they do have good stuff, there amps are solid, there speakers sound good, and there subs are all pretty damn good. so where do they suck? bang for the buck, there awful. which is why i dont recomend them either. you can get the same quality product for a lot less. so its rare that i recomend JL. if you can find a good deal on JL, then by all means take it.

there are lots of people that give bad advise. and there are a lot of people on here that really dont know what there talking about. i avoid questions i dont know the answers to. for example i suck at impednce questions. so i dont answer them. my main goal on here is to get people to think out side the box. to let people know that there is other stuff out there then what Best Buy and Circuit City sells. not only is there other stuff, but most of it is a lot better then anything BB or CC sells. i'm just spreading the word. the other thing i stress is shop around. if you've dont your homework by shopping around and compairing brands then your going to be happy with what you've bought. also a lot of these questions are based on opinion. no one can get upset about that. if you think a Sony sub sounds better then a Diamond Audio sub, thats your opinion. do i actually think you've ever heard a Diamond sub? nope. but i cant prove that, and i would hope people would be honest about what they have and havent heard.

just my 0.02 cents. i dont know if your question was directed at anyone, or just people in general. i just wanted to throw out where i stood, as a "top contributor"

EDIT: say what you want about how the amp doesnt effect SQ. i have heard the differnce between the Kicker amp that i used and the Excelon amp that i'm using now. where i could really hear the differnce was power cords. they sounded awful with the Kicker amp, at high volumes.

as far as points go, who really cares? i told you what i was in here to do. and so far points have proved to be worthless in here. they dont benefit anyone in the real world.

i guess i dont understand what your problem is. did you not know coming in here that some people are just idiots, and dont know wtf there talking about? and even if you didnt, why would you stop trying to help people if others are just leading them furture in the wrong dirrection?

Answer 9

your right man. 15in or 18in is way better then a 10in. But if your dealing with minimal space then you deal with what you got and yes Sony car audio sucks balls.