Jehovah's Witnesses concerning the New Covenant with Jesus?

Question

It is my understanding per the below article that you believe Jesus is only in the new covenant with 144k and the other sheep with earthly hope can only be saved thru the 144k enlightening them in the organization. Currently you report around 8500 living members of the 144k that are mostly elderly.

I have a sincere confusion about this teaching despite disagreeing with it. Can you explain something to me?

Since no one knows the date of Armageddon, what happens if those 8500 pass away in the next 50 years and the Earth is still spinning with no Armageddon? Will then no one have the earthly hope because there is no leftover salvation to catch from any of the elect?

ran out of room... posting article below

Watchtower 1979 April 1 p.31 Questions from Readers
Questions from Readers
• Is Jesus the "mediator" only for anointed Christians?

The term "mediator" occurs just six times in the Christian Greek Scriptures and Scripturally is always used regarding a formal covenant.

Moses was the "mediator" of the Law covenant made between God and the nation of Israel. (Gal. 3:19, 20) Christ, though, is the "mediator of a new covenant" between Jehovah and spiritual Israel, the "Israel of God" that will serve as kings and priests in heaven with Jesus. (Heb. 8:6; 9:15; 12:24; Gal. 6:16) At a time when God was selecting those to be taken into that new covenant, the apostle Paul wrote that Christ was the "one mediator between God and men." (1 Tim. 2:5) Reasonably Paul was here using the word "mediator" in the same way he did the other five times, which occurred before the writing of 1 Timothy 2:5, referring to those then being taken into the new covenant for which Christ is "mediator."

So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the "mediator" only for anointed Christians.

The new covenant will terminate with the glorification of the remnant who are today in that covenant mediated by Christ. The "great crowd" of "other sheep" that is forming today is not in that new covenant. However, by their associating with the "little flock" of those yet in that covenant they come under benefits that flow from that new covenant. During the millennium Jesus Christ will be their king, high priest and judge. For more detailed information, see Aid to Bible Understanding, pages 1129 and 1130 under "Mediator"; also God’s "Eternal Purpose" Now Triumphing for Man’s Good, page 160, paragraph 10; also The Watchtower issues of February 15, 1966, pages 105 through 123; November 15, 1972, pages 685 and 686, under the subheading "Leading the Way to a New Covenant"; and April 1, 1973, pages 198 and 199, under the subheading "The New Covenant."

CoolCat you said "Armageddon will come either right after the last of them dies, or while a few are living".... is there a scripture for that please?

Interesting TeeM, those scriptures do not say only 144k are in the new covenant,
they do not say the heavenly calling ended near 1935 and therefore the Armageddon will occur while those people are still around.

Are you prophesying that the world will SURELY end in the next 50 yrs? IF that's not what you are saying, and these folks are passed on by then, what happens?

Sasi I absolutely agree with your biblical interpretation. The scriptures overflow with proof that if we are not born again in the Spirit aka "anointed" that we do not belong to Christ, and cannot be saved. This is what results in my SINCERE confusion about why JWs believe this... and why I ask about it. I truly would like to be able to see WHY a JW believes in the 144k doctrine.

JWs, that Watchtower article clearly states that those of you with earthly hope are lost if you are not in association with the little flock of anointed ones. It has removed Jesus as your mediator, and said you must go thru other humans to get to Jesus! It has also told you that if you do not have the anointing, that you may live forever. The Bible teaches the exact opposite...hence my confusion.

Romans 8:1-17
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. -cont'd-

Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Answer 1

This Q is best answered by thinking through the immense implications of 99.9% of all JWs NOT being in the New Covenant relationship with Jehovah God. They are not in the Old Covenant. They are not in the New Covenant. They ARE in the Noachian Covenant (as are all humans and animals from the time of Noah till now) but that Covenant has nothing in it about living forever, anywhere!

The article you quoted says that only those claiming to be anointed with 'holy spirit' are in the New Covenant which has Jesus as its Mediator, therefore 99.9% of JWs DO NOT HAVE JESUS AS THEIR MEDIATOR!!! And they think they're going to live forever! The destination is totally unimportant. Whether it's heaven or earth, nobody is going to live forever without having Jesus as their Mediator! "There is one Mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ" (1 Tim 2:5). It is utterly blasphemous to suggest that anyone other than Christ can facilitate salvation. Only Jesus saves. Only those in the New Covenant he inaugurated at the Last Supper will be in his Kingdom, where he instituted a "covenant for a kingdom" through his shed blood. To refuse to partake of the emblems of that covenant, as do 99.9% of all JWs, is to publicly show they do not have Christ as their Mediator. They are still lost in their sin! Verbal declarations of their faith in Christ are nullified by their refusal to accept his invitation to partake of the emblems of that New Covenant.

Answer 2

The scriptures showing the anointed will still be here at the end of the age are:

Matt:24: 13 But he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.

22 In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short.

45 “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so.

I hope this helps. Thess. and Rev also contain the same info.


edit ------

Where does it say "Jesus is God Almighty" ?
Yet that is what you believe.

Who needs endurance?
Who are the chosen ones?
Who is the faithful slave?

If they are not 'born again' christians then who are they?

2 Cor 4:4, when are you going to read this verse?
Col 2:8, when are you going to reject Plato's teachings?

.

Answer 3

u ask a "what if" Q.
So, I will give u a "what if" answer.
what if Jesus returns in ohhh say a month?
and You r in the Wrong?
and caught up in persecuting His ppl?

I study w/ the Witnesses; now,
and have not seen nor heard;
that ppl can only b saved through the 144,000.
It's in the Bible. The wherefores etc...
How To Be Saved From Destruction
in the Day of Jehovah's Anger.
It doesn't say the 'annointed' bride.
It's through Christ.
Not in any translation that I've read from.

Answer 4

What is the Trinitarian view on those who died prior to the New Covenant and did not partake in the emblems?

Are Men like Job or Abraham lost forever in the grave?

Answer 5

Armageddon will come either right after the last of them dies, or while a few are living
and no, we belive you can be saved by faith in Jesus and God, and acting accordingly to what you have learned and showing your faith with acts

o and also,
Kathi,
read psalms 37:9-11
it CLEARLY says "the meek shall inherit the (what?) EARTH"!!!
that is whats up

Answer 6

In another 25 years they Will have "new Light" and change this doctrine...and Will re-write their history like they are now doing over the 1914 prophecy.
Older witnesses will leave the faith. Newer Witnesses will deny that this was the organizations teaching on this matter and the WBTS will continue to rake in the Big Bucks, because hard working (Christians) spend their time going door to door to spread their message...and..make the Cows of the society Rich..

Problem: What if said witnesses end up losing their soul over this?
Problem: What if said Witnesses go to the Hell that they don't believe in, but find out the hard eternal way?

Fervent prayer and the intervention of the Holy spirit is the only hope.

learn more
www.freeminds.org
www.silentlambs.org

Answer 7

I share your confusion, my brother has become a JW and what I find is that historically, if they have an answer that doesn't work they come up with a new one.

little flock gets to go to heaven (144000)
big flock get to stay in the heaven on earth,
never mind that this is in no way suggested any where in the Bible which of course you know they only accept if it is properly translated.

Good luck, but don't get too mired in trying to understand, the better task is to know what is true so you can recognize the truth

Answer 8

What is truly amazing is that the Word of God plainly tels us that the 144,0000 will be 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel, not JW's. Goes to show what some people will accept as truth. Perhaps it should have been Russell and Rutherford's Believe It Or Not !

Answer 9

The WT will just say that it got "new light" on the matter that clarifies what they once thought. Or, they'll say they never said it. Or, they'll blame the rank and file JW by saying that they mistook what the WT was trying to say. The WT always uses one of the three excuses, and will never admit wrong doing any more than a politician that's been caught red handed.

Answer 10

The 144,000 are made up of people who've lived since Christ and with Christ. Matthew, Mark, John, Timothy, etc...those who were there during Pentecost 33CE, all part of 144, 000. If you're thinking that i(144,000) is only comprised of Jehovah's Witnesses, no, it's not.

Luke 22:20 Also, the cup in the same way after they had the evening meal, he saying: “This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood, which is to be poured out in YOUR behalf.

On Nisan 14, 33 C.E., the evening Jesus instituted the Lord’s Evening Meal and mentioned “the new covenant by virtue of [his] blood,” he spoke of another covenant, the seventh for discussion. He told his faithful apostles: “You are the ones that have stuck with me in my trials; and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel.” (Luke 22:20, 28-30) Just as the Father had made the covenant with Jesus to be a priest like Melchizedek, so Christ made a personal covenant with his loyal followers.

The 11 apostles had certainly stuck with Jesus in his trials, and the covenant showed that they would sit on thrones. Further, Revelation 3:21 proves that all spirit-begotten Christians who prove faithful will sit on heavenly thrones. Thus, this covenant is with all 144,000 who have been bought with Jesus’ blood to be taken to heaven as priests and “to rule as kings over the earth.” (Revelation 1:4-6; 5:9, 10; 20:6) The covenant that Jesus makes with them joins them to him to share his dominion. In a sense, it is as though a bride from a noble family was joined by marriage to a ruling monarch. She thus comes into position to share his kingdom rule.—John 3:29; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Revelation 19:7, 8

How about Christs other 'sheep'... John 10:16: “I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd.” (Who are these “other sheep”? They are followers of the Fine Shepherd, Jesus Christ, but are not in the “new covenant” sheepfold, with hope of heavenly life. Yet they do come to be closely associated with those who are in that sheepfold.)

2 Pet. 3:13: “There are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.” (Also Revelation 21:1-4)

Rev. 7:9, 10: “After these things [after the apostle John saw the full number of “sealed” ones who had been “bought from the earth” to be with Christ on heavenly Mount Zion; see Revelation 7:3, 4; 14:1-3] I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. And they keep on crying with a loud voice, saying: ‘Salvation we owe to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.’”

So, the other sheep are the ones who inherit life on earth. The meek to whom it was promised.

We also know the 144,00 are not NATURAL Jews from the original 12 Tribes.
Rev. 7:4-8: “I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel: . . . Judah . . . Reuben . . . Gad . . . Asher . . . Naphtali . . . Manasseh . . . Simeon . . . Levi . . . Issachar . . . Zebulun . . . Joseph . . . Benjamin.” (These cannot be the tribes of natural Israel because there never was a tribe of Joseph, the tribes of Ephraim and Dan are not included in the list here, and the Levites were set aside for service in connection with the temple but were not reckoned as one of the 12 tribes. See Numbers 1:4-16.)

Rom. 2:28, 29: “He is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision that which is on the outside upon the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit, and not by a written code.”

As far as 'what if' questions, I don't do 'what ifs'. No man knows the date or hour, just the Father knows, and I'm happy to be patient on Jehovah.

Oh, Wait!! I do have a 'what if'. What if the end comes tomorrow and you find out you were wrong and had to explain why you persecuted Jehovah's people? There's a good 'what if' for you.