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2007-07-14 14:33:52 · 11 answers · asked by PaulH 1 in Education & Reference Words & Wordplay

11 answers

The Society for New York History (whose site two answers have linked to), as most others, now accepts the explanation Barry Popick advocated.

Now Barry Popik's documentation of Fitzgerald's discovery of the term around 1920 is an important piece of the history of this term. But notice that it does NOT pull all the pieces together, nor does it actually tell you the SOURCE of the expression!! Fitzgerald was just relating an expression he first heard on a trip to New Orleans.

The New Orleans connection appears to be absolutely critical. Note that it fits in with the long recognized use of the term "big apple" among New York jazz musicians of the 1930s (New Orleans roots!) And note that the fact that the term's first clearly DOCUMENTED use (by Fitzgerald) does NOT show us that the 'racetrack' application preceded its application to the jazz scene (it's hard to imagine how that would happen). It might well have happened the other way round!

So who coined the phrase, and why? I believe John Ciardi and Robert Hendrickson offer the best explanation, one which fits in very well with the Fitzgerald and jazz musician stories (though oddly Popik tends to be dismissive of it, perhaps thinking it somehow undercuts his work ?!) At any rate it makes a LOT of sense.

The explanation is simple:
The word "manzana" in Spanish means either apple or 'built up block of houses, neighborhood'. Ciardi suggests that the slang expression 'manzana prinicipale' i.e., 'main/big apple [or apple orchard]' was thrown around in New Orleans, a city with some old Spanish roots and expressions, not just French. (Popik seems to dislike the Spanish explanation because of the "French" background of New Orleans, but in fact there was more than one cultural influence in this area).

It's easy to see how such an expression might be picked up and used by folks in New Orleans to refer to some 'hot spot' where the MAIN action in a field (jazz, racing, whatever) was to be found --that was the place to be!

"In about 1910 jazz musicians there used it as a loose translation of the Spanish 'manzana principal,' the main 'apple orchard,' the main city block downtown, the place where all the action is." From the "Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins" by Robert Hendrickson (Facts on File, New York, 1997)."
http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/21/messages/1121.html

2007-07-14 16:58:31 · answer #1 · answered by bruhaha 7 · 0 1

New York is the jewel in the crown. If you make it there as the song goes you'll make it anywhere. New York used to have apple orchards and taking a bite out of the big apple was like having a shot at the big time.

2016-05-17 22:57:53 · answer #2 · answered by ? 3 · 0 0

Look on the Yahoo main page under "Why is New York City nicknamed Gotham?"

2007-07-14 14:36:43 · answer #3 · answered by Sashy 2 · 0 0

I know!!! It is so not a fruit especially an apple!

2007-07-14 14:37:46 · answer #4 · answered by Lily N 1 · 0 0

check this out ... http://www.salwen.com/apple.html. Initially the term applied only to Manhattan area ...

2007-07-14 14:43:20 · answer #5 · answered by Aski 3 · 0 0

It is short for "the Big Roadapple."

Once you know that a roadapple is a piece of horse-manure, you will see that the comparison is apt!

[roflol]

2007-07-14 18:03:27 · answer #6 · answered by Anonymous · 0 1

its filled with worms, been to a lot of very enjoyable places in this great country. and that wasnt one of them.

2007-07-14 14:37:34 · answer #7 · answered by Anonymous · 0 0

I think a bunch of worms live in it.

2007-07-14 14:41:04 · answer #8 · answered by Amoeba Man 3 · 0 0

because they create nice apples.
they taste lovely.

2007-07-14 14:36:45 · answer #9 · answered by Anonymous · 0 1

several theories try this link for discussion

http://www.salwen.com/apple.html

2007-07-14 14:42:47 · answer #10 · answered by oldhippypaul 6 · 0 0

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