Can a good belief system produce bad people?

Question

I'm asking as a general query, not directed at any specific religion, although it's prompted by a question about judging Islam by the actions of Muslims. In short---there being no actual objective standard of proof for any faith beyond, well, *faith* and subjective spiritual experience, isn't it appropriate to look at the EFFECTS of a given belief or religion on its followers as the only available evidence for or against it?

How good can a religion be if it doesn't make for better people?

Answer 1

This is a good question and there have been some very good points made in the answers.

I would like to suggest some assumptions in the question are worth taking a second look at, though, particularly the assumption that religion is a matter of beliefs for which we can’t have any objective standard of proof.

That is the way most of us think about religion, that it involves believing improvable things. But I think that assumption needs nuance.

Religions can be looked at as a WORLDVIEW plus an ETHOS (a common definition found in religious studies). We often assume a religious WORLDVIEW is a set of improvable metaphysical claims we must accept or reject. We also often assume a religious ETHOS is a set of dogmatic commandments or authoritarian rules we choose either to comply with or not.

But religion doesn’t have to be seen that way. Religion doesn’t have to be improvable and dogmatic. It’s all in the *HOW*.

Because … a worldview CAN BE an expression of a wise, sober, and profoundly artistic UNDERSTANDING of how the world works that’s BASED ON EXPERIENCE, not just on an improvable belief. And an ethos CAN BE a healthy, wholesome, and loving WAY OF BEING in the world that is demonstrably nurturing to ourselves and to others and that is again, BASED ON EXPERIENCE, and not just compliance with dogmatic commandments.

I know this is over-simplifying, but here’s another way to say the point I’m trying to make:

It’s like asking, “Can a good art produce bad people?” or “Can a good language produce bad people?”

We don’t typically ask of a poem whether we believe it or not. We don’t typically “accept it” or “reject it” as true or false. Instead, it’s more like we ask, “What does this put me in touch with?”, or “How does this work for me?”

And I think that’s the point being made in many of the posts here, as when Redglory speaks of the (HEALTHY) manner of religiousness as a quality of “relationship,” and when Archie speaks of religion as “producing for [us]”. And, in regards to other side--the UNHEALTHY manner of religiousness--Mike D mentions a potential for a “cynical” way of doing things that “takes advantage” of religious forms; and Archie speaks of the potential for “deceit”; and Francesca observes the potential for people to “believe in something that they did not understand.”

(Psychologist of religion, Gordon Allport, by the way, made a similar distinction between “intrinsic” religiousness and “extrinsic” religiousness. He saw intrinsic religiousness as having to do with the experienced worth of religion and extrinsic religiousness as having to do with dogmatic uses of religion.)

So this is a long-winded way of agreeing with the concluding part of your question and saying yes, it’s appropriate to look at the EFFECTS—namely, to look at how the religious symbols and teachings WORK in the actual lives of people who practice in a given religious community. But I also want to challenge our common assumption that religion is by definition about unverifiable beliefs. Religiousness can also be about very practical, experienced-based, self-authenticating realizations. I think in addition to “worldview” and “ethos” we need also to emphasize religious PRACTICE, particularly since religious practice, as with meditation, can include QUESTIONING our systems of belief.

I’m finding it hard to be concise. But I’ll hush and mention that there’s more discussion of the religious practice versus religious belief issue here ...

... in the posts for “Do the Agnostics cover everything between a skeptical atheist and a skeptical Christian?” ...

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070712214116AAFrfNu&r=w&pa=AptqD2bwHTHf5uWEY6Y.uRtexry7aN2TSAm58vAwfQg6Ls0l34yt2VmyX6S1B46LuxXYVyzObkdPlg--&paid=voted


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Answer 2

I do understand what you're saying. Seeing the way a person of a certain faith behaves can say loads about that religion. That's why I'm careful about what I say and do because I want people to draw good conclusions about my faith.

Still, it's hard to judge religion as a whole based on those who claim to be a part of it. Many Muslims, for example, would never have the idea of harming innocent people come into their hearts while there's a select few of their faith that want to destroy life. Because of the actions of the few, it overshadows all those who want to live peacefully with the rest of the world and makes us suspicious of them all.

There are some people who are rude, disrespectful, and intolerant of the choices others make. When they say that they're Christian, it affects me as a Christian because although I'd never do those things, many in the world will think that of me because of those out there that act a certain way.

Rather than looking at Islam, Judaism, Christendom and the like as one collective group, you should try to look at all the different 'versions' within those groups and come up with your own ideas from that standpoint. There's quite a few different ways that even Christians think so it'll take a while to differentiate between one group and another.

Answer 3

Well, you have to realize that even a "good" religion will attract some hypocrites for various reasons.

Just because a religion turns out a few bad apples does not necessarily mean that the whole barrel is bad. These few people would have been bad anyway, even if they had no religion at all.

On the other hand, if a large majority of people in that particular religion were bad, then there must be something wrong with what they are teaching since it seems to be the religion itself that is making people turn bad.

Answer 4

Every belief system that involves human beings produces bad people. Every religion in this world had produced it's share of baddies. It depends on what parts of the system they are taught and what they choose to believe. You could look at the question in another way---Can a bad belief system produce good people? How bad can a religion be if it makes for better people?

Answer 5

If a person finds the right belief system that produces for him/ her it can't be bad. I don't think that the radicals within the Islamic religion should represent Islam as a whole. That would be like the Catholic priests that have molested children representing all Christians. I don't think religious beliefs should be forced on anyone. We should chose our path freely. If there is divine power behind something it will come out. If there is human deceit the truth will eventually come out also...

Answer 6

Nearly every war in history stems from religion in one way or another. That being said, whether direct or indirect, any belief system can produce "bad" people (more specifically- bad actions/decisions). Even if a specific religion doesn't, how should I word this..."corrupt" people within it's own circle, it will most certainly stem opposition which could in turn lead to violence, etc. against that religion. It's a vicious cycle that's plagued humanity for years and years.

Answer 7

No, a good belief system does not produce bad people.

Terrorists claiming to be Muslims are wahhabis. Their belief system is against Islam. They worship a body that they imagine to be above the Throne. This is not the belief system of Islam.

Wahhaabism is the reason for these terrorist actions not Islam.

Answer 8

I think it's important to remember that there are people who hide behind religion. It's not that the religion really means anything to them, but the power they get with it. Or maybe even that they think it will make them look good no matter what. I guess what I'm saying is there are bad people out there and their belief system doesn't seem to enter into their behavior at all.

Answer 9

I agree that a good belief system can produce bad people. However I think it is more likely that cynical people find it easy to take advantage of a good belief system and people's faith in that belief system for personal gain. I am thinking of people like televangelists.

However I think it is more likely that an bad belief system will encourage otherwise good people to commit atrocious acts.

I've heard it said that evil people will always do evil things and good people will always do go. But to get a good person to do something evil requires religion.

Answer 10

Any good belief system can produce, not what I would call bad people, but those who would twist the meaning of the belief to fit their own agenda, or in short fanatics. This has been common throughout history.(i.e. the crusades et al.)
Your Pagan Bro,
John

Answer 11

you can see the effect of islam in mecca people and the arab world before and after islam,say 10 years, you will find how this religion changes thus people life completely ,for example,from being sculpted some stones and worship it(complete absence of their brain) to liberate their brain from ignorance ,and from being don't respect womens (satisfy their sexual desire only)to respect her and give her a great role in society, the abduls was insulted in the arab world and islam come and make the free and abdul have the same rights and calls to liberate them,your question is based on one group of muslims who don't make what islam calls for ,and this is our problem as muslims today. (reading about muhammed life and the people who suppport him,and judge about islam as a belief)