It has been stated that the murdering tyrant Hitler was a Christian, Catholic to be more precise, so ...?

Question

...can anyone deny the factual basis of the statement, "That murdering tyrant Stalin was an atheist." ?

Jack: I understand what you're saying but I never said he committed atrocities "because" he was atheist.

Bebelusha have you any "real" answers?

Answer 1

It doesn't really matter who was what, or who is what, they did those things because they thought they were right, now obviously reason would tell you that just because one person is a violent member of a belief that not all members of the same belief are violent.

ie Not all muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are muslims. (A poor example, but it illustrates my point).

Atheism didn't tell Stalin to do what he did, nor did a religion tell Hitler to do what he did, they formed their own opinions of right and wrong, good and bad based on personal experience, not just on their belief or non-belief in God.

Answer 2

Hitler abandoned deism around 13 and was never a Catholic as an adult. He may or may not have been sincere in public staements regarding a vague entity he referred to as "Divine Providence". He did believe in fate and had theosophical ideas,something about "Odinic energy transfer" for example - crackpot metaphysics you might say. Stalin once considered entering the Russian Orthodox clergy but family sources later said this was only as a way out of peasant status and poverty - a common practice at the time. Whether he was ever religious at all - even as a child - we don't know; but as an adult he was certainly an outspoken and hardcore atheist. American atheists don't like to be reminded of this,by the way. Brits and Europeans don't seem to mind. He was in fact the worst mass-murder in history - he killed at least twice as many people as Hitler,meaning deliberate liquidations as opposed to war casualties.

Answer 3

The claim is sometimes made that Hitler was a Christian - a Roman Catholic until the day he died. In fact, Hitler rejected Christianity.

The book Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944 published by Farrar, Straus and Young, Inc.first edition, 1953, contains definitive proof of Hitler's real views. The book was published in Britain under the title, _Hitler's Table Talk 1941-1944, which title was used for the Oxford University Press paperback edition in the United States.

All of these are quotes from Adolf Hitler:


Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:


National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)

10th October, 1941, midday:


Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)

14th October, 1941, midday:


The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52)

19th October, 1941, night:


The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.

21st October, 1941, midday:


Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer.... The decisive falsification of Jesus' doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation.... Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, *******? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea. (p 63-65)

13th December, 1941, midnight:


Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... .... When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease. (p 118 & 119)


14th December, 1941, midday:


Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself.... Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics. (p 119 & 120)

9th April, 1942, dinner:


There is something very unhealthy about Christianity (p 339)

27th February, 1942, midday:


It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch Uin the next 200 yearse will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold ." (p 278)





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Answer 4

Although Hitler grew up in a catholic family, he left the church early in his career.

Automatic excommunication happens when Catholics commit certain offensives. This happens as soon as the offense is committed.

Adolf Hitler committed the following offenses resulting in automatic excommunication:
- Apostasy - the formal renunciation of one's religion. Hitler specifically rejected the Catholic Church, as well as Christianity in general. He described himself as "a complete pagan.”
- Heresy - a doctrine in theology, religion, philosophy, or politics at variance with those of the Catholic Church. Nazism is definitely heretical to Christianity.

There was no reason for the Catholic Church to excommunicate Hitler. He did it all by himself.

For Hitler's own words against Christianity, see: http://www.geocities.com/chiniquy/Hitler.html

For more information about excommunication, see: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05678a.htm
And: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excommunicate#Automatic_excommunication

With love in Christ.

Answer 5

It has also been acknowledged that Hitler used Catholicism for manipulation and to gain more power.

Too bad Stalin can't be excused.

Again, so much for morality...although, I guess that would be a moral action on Stalin's part because society said it was...

Answer 6

I wouldn't know about Stalin's beliefs. Sorry.

Though I have a disturbingly graphic children't book about "the Stalin Era".

Answer 7

I can. Although some religious believers try to insist that "real" religion never inspires unjust violence, others seek to rebut this criticism by claiming that atheism is no better. After all, haven't atheists killed in the name of atheism as well? In fact, no — atheists have killed, but not in the name of atheism itself.

Answer 8

do 2 people represent an entire society? culture? who gives a poo

Answer 9

and your point is....?