2007-07-12 08:31:30 · 16 answers · asked by Anonymous in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
No; but that doesn't stop most people from believing it is true anyway.
2007-07-12 08:34:17 · answer #1 · answered by Anonymous · 3⤊ 3⤋
Good question. I think this is one that my fellow Christians choose to ignore more times than not, or just give a stock answer, because it's been said so many times before. But lately I've been thinking it really has some merit to it.
If God knows everything, then he knows the decisions we will make. This limits us from making no decision other than the one he has already foreknown. Thus "free will" is obsolete because we have no other options.
Christians will try to tell you that we made the decision ourselves already, and since God exists outside of time he has seen that and that's how he's omniscient. That's one point that this Christian doesn't necessarily buy anymore. It's not a fair argument and in the end it's just a cop out that doesn't even address the problem.
2007-07-12 08:37:08 · answer #2 · answered by Anonymous · 3⤊ 3⤋
"If that is the case, since god already knows everything that will happen, then everything is already decided."
As long as what happens is decided by the person, then there is still free will. Only if God made the decision would free will be negated.
"as we go along through life, we are merely doing what has already been seen by god"
Been seen by god is not the same as been decided by god. Still no negation of free will.
"we are merely acting out what god already sees and knows"
Seen and known by god, but decided by us. Just because God knows what we will decide beforehand does not mean we still didn't make the decision.
"if you come to a point of decision, you have no choice but to take the path that god already knows you will take."
That's free will right there: YOU came to a point of decision.
"However, since god is 'omniscient', and god 'knows' that you will take path 'A', then path B IS NOT an option."
On the contrary, it was an option, just one that God knew you wouldn't take.
The only thing that matters is whether we made the choice(s). That God knew beforehand what choice(s) we would make is irrelevant.
2007-07-12 09:02:03 · answer #3 · answered by Deof Movestofca 7 · 2⤊ 1⤋
yes. the omniscience of God does not mean that God knows what everybody of all time will do beforehand. But as an eternal being and an entity completey not limited or bounded by time, God experiences the whole of time and history simultaneously. So God knows all that we do, because he is present and experiences it all simultaneously
2007-07-12 08:37:43 · answer #4 · answered by messenjah82 2 · 1⤊ 1⤋
We do not understand how free each individual is. Free will, while undoubtedly part of the human condition, appears to be... incomplete. The only being that appears truly free appears to be God himself.
2007-07-12 08:38:36 · answer #5 · answered by BigPappa 5 · 1⤊ 0⤋
Nope. 'Omniscience' is logically incompatible with 'free will'. 'Omniscience', all by itself, is sufficient to put the lid on 'free will'; omnipresence and omnipotence are irrelevant. It is not necessary for god to intervene in order to negate 'free will' as a possibility. Omniscience negates free will all by itself.
If we really DO have 'free will', then an omniscient god is logically excluded. The logical fallacy lies in the premise that if god is omniscient, all outcomes are already known to god... everything that you think, decide and do... and everything that you WILL think, decide, and do.
For an omniscient being, all of existence over all of time is laid out as a tapestry before him... past, present and future, down to the smallest detail of material, of thought and of deed, and all is constantly in his awareness. There is no past, present and future from that perspective... there is only an eternal 'now'.
If that is the case, since god already knows everything that will happen, then everything is already decided... and as we go along through life, we are merely doing what has already been seen by god. Since god knows and sees everything that will happen, NOTHING that we think or do can be contrary to what god already sees and knows. We might THINK we have free will... but since we are merely acting out what god already sees and knows, this can be no more than an ILLUSION of free will.
Put another way, if you come to a point of decision, you have no choice but to take the path that god already knows you will take... there is no other option. That works all the way down the path of cause-and-effect... and, along the way, it even casts doubt on the validity of the concept of cause and effect. I don't want to get into that, though... it makes my hair hurt.
So, imagine that since before time began, since before the universe was created, god has 'known' that you would come to a point of decision at some spatial and temporal coordinate, and that faced with the possible paths A and B, you would take path A.
Now, during the course of your life, you arrive at that spatial and temporal coordinate where this choice exists. You evaluate the potential outcomes, and you have it in your head that you have 'free will', and thus, you are free to choose between path A and path B. However, since god is 'omniscient', and god 'knows' that you will take path 'A', then path B IS NOT an option... it IS NOT a matter of choice... it is a 'NECESSITY'. OF NECESSITY, you WILL take path A. Not 'must'... not 'can'... WILL take path A. You DO NOT have a choice. Path B is NOT an option... it is not even a POSSIBILITY. The best that you can achieve is the ILLUSION that you are free to choose.
So, either god is omniscient OR we have free will. It is QUITE IMPOSSIBLE for BOTH of these conditions to coexist.
The only way out of this logical dilemma is to limit god's power; i.e., start taking away things that god can see and know, until we get to a point where free will BECOMES a possibility. But when we start doing that, then he ceases to be omniscient... and thus ceases to be a 'supreme being'.
So... free will is an impossibility concomitant with an omniscient diety. The following sums up the possibilities:
1. There is no omniscient diety... therefore, the whole argument is stupid and irrelevant.
2. IF we possess 'free will' AND god exists, THEN, of necessity, it is IMPOSSIBLE that god is omniscient. (This does not preclude the notion of 'god'... it just means that he can't be as 'supreme' as one might think he is... or wish him to be.) You are (logically) obliged to acknowledge that god CAN NOT BE all knowing... and since omniscience is one of the things that makes god 'all powerful', then this means that god CAN NOT BE omnipotent, either.
3. IF god exists AND god is omniscient THEN, OF NECESSITY, it is IMPOSSIBLE that that we have free will, and you are (metaphorically speaking) nothing more than a piece on god's eternal game board; and, thus, "... man is not responsible for his actions."
Personally, I vote for number 1. You can pick any one you want... but YOU MUST PICK ONE, because there are NO OTHER possible outcomes... NO OTHER logically valid choices.
It is unfortunate (for the Abrahamic cults of desert monotheism) that the concepts of god were solidified as dogma a few thousand years before the philosophical discipline of 'logic' was dreamed up by the Greeks. Those that concocted the religion did not have access to the intellectual tools that would have enabled them to realize that they had messed up with respect to assigning god's impossible attributes. It wasn't until the 4th century that this logical impossibility garnered serious attention, and churchmen got their theological "dancin' shoes" on, trying to weasel their way out of the logical dilemma.
They did not succeed, and this issue continues to be debated even 'til this day. This logical dilemma (and the resulting 'cognitive dissonance') was a key element in some of the various 'heresies' that were spawned in the early days of Christianity.
However, the simple observation that these impossible beliefs still exist shows that this does not seem to have been a very big hindrance, under the simple expediency that "There is no problem so big that we cannot ignore it, until it will go away." Too bad for them, though... it DOESN'T go away.
Corporate religion is helped along by the fact that most 'believers' do not employ logic or critical thinking skills; heck... that's why they're believers in the first place. If they employed logic and critical thinking, they WOULD NOT BE believers. So, even though these concepts create a logical impossibility, it does not seem to present a significant problem for them.
2007-07-12 08:37:37 · answer #6 · answered by Anonymous · 3⤊ 3⤋
If God could create things without really thinking about the consequences, like teen pregnancy, then yes. But he might have to do a quick whip-it at a crucial moment so it's a mystery to HIM what the heck we're gonna do.
2007-07-12 08:40:13 · answer #7 · answered by Anonymous · 1⤊ 2⤋
No. If he knows every single thing we're going to do before he even created us then we never really had a choice in the first place. I mean think about it if he gave you two choices, but knew which one you were going to pick, then the other one was never an option
2007-07-12 08:41:09 · answer #8 · answered by Anonymous · 1⤊ 1⤋
Yes, but there's no point to the free will. Since he alreadys knows the outcome. It's like a stacked deck.
2007-07-12 08:34:29 · answer #9 · answered by Anonymous · 2⤊ 2⤋
What does God knowing everything have anything to do with free will? We still decide our own fate, even though God knows already what we'll do.
2007-07-12 08:36:25 · answer #10 · answered by . 7 · 2⤊ 2⤋
Why not? Just because he knows doesn't mean he controls us. A mother may know what her child is doing, or even what her child is thinking, but she can still let him do what he feels and not interfere.
2007-07-12 08:53:32 · answer #11 · answered by GreySkies 2 · 1⤊ 1⤋