The goal of Buddhism is the understanding & thereby relinquishment & cessation of 'identity'; T/F?

Question

Even Buddhist identity?

Is there a way we can do things, and not be attached to them in a way that bad qualities decrease & the good increase?

'Emptily' of 'self': i.e. (fairly) Altruistically ... ? :-)

Can the death of something false, be the birth of something good?

Like phoenixes (-ices) from flames?

Some really mature answers, here.

I bow to you all! (As Digilook would say). :-)

Answer 1

A lot of good answers. Buddhism can not be taught, only the way to Buddhism can be taught. It is good to listen to or read the teachings but it is important to meditate also, the truth is not something new it is eternal in everything, just covered over by concepts. Sit as Buddha and all is enlightenment. ~*~

Answer 2

Is it?
I mean, is the cessation of identity really the goal of Buddhism?
I might well be wrong, but I don't think it is.
Even the Buddha after his fourth Kensho, this massive enlightenment, still taught, still ate, still wandered about addressing his disciples with love and with wit as well as with unfathomable wisdom. Only at Parinirvana did he actually drop that 'identity'.
Isn't the point rather to 'see through' this apparent identity that we all have? The difference between the masters I've met and me, (well, one of the differences), is they have identities / egos, whereas my ego has me.

As to the second part of your Q. . .
I had a big epiphany quite recently in which I was shown the length, breadth and depth of all my attachments. It fair shook me up. Out of it has come the understanding that, for me, the best way of dealing with them is just to notice them as they arise - without judgement! And then to notice them as they pass away. Every minute Zazen, if you like.
Seeing what IS, without being swayed by it.

No! The false IS the good. There is nothing to be added or subtracted from what IS in this very moment. It's just a matter of realising that. ('Just'! Ha!)

Let's just keep going, Goodfella. I'm sure we'll both get there - at this no place wer'e trying to reach.

Answer 3

False. The goal of Dharma practice is nirvana or enlightenment. To achieve nirvana, or liberation from cyclic existence, one practices the three higher trainings. To achieve enlightenment one practices the three higher trainings plus bodhicitta. The way to increase positive qualities is through study and practice and the way to decrease negativities, or purify obscurations and obstructions, is through study and practice with an emphasis on the four opponent powers. (Of course, implicit within this is the basis of refuge in the Three Jewels because of fear of the lower realms and faith in the Three Jewels to prevent this, abandonment of the ten non-virtues of body, speech and mind, an understanding of the (karmic) law of cause and effect, an understanding of the true nature of reality, impermanence, acknowledgment of misdeeds, the two truths and the four noble truths.) You must study these topics, listen to teachings, contemplate teachings and meditate on teachings. Don't just head right for the ultimate truth - do it in stages. This is a time-tested method of certain realization. Find a Mahayana Teacher who has love and compassion and can show you this in practice, not just theory, and then depend on them wholeheartedly. No Buddhas exist without the Teacher! If you want fast results plan on spending your whole life and subsequent lifetimes to achieve even the slighest bit of realization and undertake even a little bit of study for the benefit of all sentient beings, even people you don't like and don't know, and with this extensive motivation generated time and again, the Buddhas and bodhisattvas will continue to help you and dedicate your merit and virtue after every Dharma practice or study so your knowledge will continue to increase, just like a big bucket can be filled one drop of water at a time. Read any books by His Holiness the Dalai Lama from the library to get you started in the right direction.

Answer 4

That is equilibrium and yes there is a way. If you read carefully, there is many Buddha and there is no Buddha. The point is, as Buddha said when questioned by his followers how should people remember him? He answered that he doesn't want any monuments, temples or any such like dedicated to him. The way to honor him is practice the Dharma and through that you can do it. The problem is we are brought up with labels, since the mind has trouble with pure thought and not combining concept to label. Meditate more and you will be able to get there.

Answer 5

Altruism is always selfish, because by definition 'Altruism' is doing someone something in a hope that;

1) It improves group situation and therefore personal situation
2) It improves your own karma
3) The reciever of your help might repay you sometime in the future.

The goal of Altruism is always selfish.
The only way to transcend altruistic goodness is to give up (renounce) all results of actions that your body performs (whether good or bad).

Upon the ocean, sometimes it sunshines and the waves are calm. Othertimes the wind blows a storm and waves are 80ft high. The only way you can weather any condition is if you have an anchor.
This metaphorical anchor is the renouceing of any results of one's actions, and ergo being situated in the self (rather than being situated in the physical body/mind). Sacrifice all the results of your actions and enjoy simply doing the work.
If the senses are dulled completely by meditation, it is just like being dead. There is no point in life if one is just dead to the world. In this world 'Self' can only be expressed through the body.
The key to enlightenment is to avoid becoming desirous of sensual gratification by applying the senses to doing work, simultaneously giving up the results of such work.
The father works for his money, and then buy's things for his son (going without himself).

The body and the mind is not the self. When you do work, your soul doesn't lift a finger. All the interactions involved in the work are between the mind/body's senses, and the sense objects (controlled by mother nature). Ergo you neither benefit nor are you harmed by the result of actions carried out by your mind/body.

Everybody (every soul) is individual. All pieces of the jigsaw represent a different part of the overall image. No pieces are identical, and so the idea of losing self identity (the soul's individuality) is false. It is like the idea that the foot can become like the eye, or the finger can substitute for the liver. All parts are individual, but all have an equally valid role in context of the whole.

Upon the earth everyone's path to enlightenment is different. Everybody starts with a slab of marble, and chips away the pieces to form an image. Many millions of lifetimes can this take.

The purpose of life is to find one's individual self, and develope a loving relationship to the whole.

If your goal is 'doing work' that maintains, promotes or establishes religious principles dharma (no matter weather the action is good or bad, and so long as you have given up all thoughts of personal reward) then there is no chance of such action leading to material attachment.

Giving up one's duty because of false sentiment (or attachment to family, friends and the physical nature of others) is a result of attachment to the material world.

Remember that the material world is like the ocean. It is huge, and no sailor can avoid weather (both bad and good). Therefore be not affected by any bad or good qualities, for such things are material qualities that do not effect the soul, only the body and the mind. Train the mind to give up all such qualities hence to become controlled by the self.

As all soul's are eternal, even killing to promote dharma hurts nobody, and maintains the truth therefore helping the whole.

This was the purpose of Krsna advising Arjuna to fight in battle, and the reason Jesus gave himself up to the Sanhedrin. Both Krsna and Jesus promote detachment from the material body by means of sacrifice of results of actions (good or bad).

Answer 6

The idea is the cessation of suffering through the realization of the cause of suffering being the false perception of self.

This is well expounded above, but as for the 'goal' of Buddhism the most important thing is the search for the most important thing.

There is no death, only change.

Answer 7

The purpose of Buddhist Practise is the development of Mind, Morality and Wisdom so that in the practise of such development we attain supermundaneness, Nibbana.

It is not the goal, because there is no goal. Enlightenment is not a destination, there is no attainment without effort it is true, but once attained, the struggle continues, there is no "rest on your attainments".

The Second Noble Truth does not state that we are to relinquish our Identity at all. Our Identity does not cause suffering. Selfishness, self serving human desires, all arising from unfulfilled Tanha.."craving" caused by the arising of "self" within the consciousness, causing us to exhibit Upadana, "clinging" or "picking up" these feelings and cravings, causing us to "own" them, "This is my pain, this is my hurt, it is valid because I am too selfish to understand otherwise, too deluded and too unwise to think that these feelings should be left where I found them"..."My pain"..."My hurt"....all Me...Me...I...I...all selfish, this is the cause of suffering, the Upadana reflex.

We must become the Observer, Observing these phenomena arising and waning, rising and falling, coming and going, ascociating these with the experiences that cause them to arise so, leaving them there, Observing then leaving without "picking them up", without ownership. Upadana is owning. To release, become detached is to not Pick It Up.!! To do so requires us to become the Observer so that we never become the Participant...!! Only Participants become involved in experiences, picking these feelings up.

By being the Observer, these feelings are felt, noted for their inherent Impermanence, ascociated with the experience, then let remain with the experience, this is where they belong after all. How can you in all honesty say that your feelings are any more valid than anyone elses....?? Your perceptions alone make this impossible...!! Therefore how can you be the Participant with this knowledge and remain true to your Practise..!! Again it is impossible..!! Unles you don't understand what "being the Observer" really means, how else can you not exhibit Upadana..?? These feelings are valid, of course, but they belong to the experience, they are only valid to you and your perceptions, making them unworthy to remain yours..

Being the Observer, there is no good or bad experiences, they are inherently just experiences with feelings ascociated with them. These feelings can be considered good or bad, yet they are valid to you regardless of goodness or badness because they belong to the experience. Some would perceive good feelings others perceive other feelings, each only valid to the experiencer, making only the experience itself valid, the feelings are irrelevent except to you, making them irrelevent, empty of truth because the truth of the feelings that they hold is not universal.

When being the Observer there is no death of identity, there is only Non Self...this does not translate to no self at all, if it did then you would be a robot, you are hardly that..!! It is not a bad thing that you have an identity, that others identify you in some way or other..it is only a bad thing if you identify with and rule your life via selfishness arising from "self" and the Upadana ascociated with the "self". This will cause you suffering....a name is nothing and inherently empty of form, yet others use them, why cause others suffering from a nothing....if they want to use them so be it, it causes you nothing and it makes their lives easier.....you may not need it ...others need it though...Mindfulness is important remember...?

The concept of Non Self means being the Observer, there is no death of anything, "self" will still arise from causes, just don't exhibit Upadana, simply Observe it, note it, ascociate the ascociated feelings then leave it alone to the experience it came with.

This will make you happier but there will be no birth of anything, only the birth of Wisdom.

Let us be wise.

Peace from a Buddhist....

Answer 8

Hmmm.... I thought Buddhism is a path, and has no goal, lol?

But I think its true that the path of Buddhism inevitably leads to self-understanding and letting go of the selfish (and prideful) things... to become connected to Truth from within.

One way to let go of the "identity" is to totally stuff yourself up so badly that you know that you have no value based on your own actions... There must be something more intrinsic to give value.

When you rely on an infallible love for your self-esteem, peace arrives even before you have reached the goals that you know will give you self-respect.

I lost myself through error, and found my true self when I understood faith in Jesus Christ. Buddhism seems to draw strength from this same infallible, universal love... By putting faith in eternal love, a human no longer requires to hold on to human pride or external valuations.

Answer 9

Lets see if I can answer your point:

1) cessation of identity - the soul gets out of the material identity that he is not this body.
2) When he is free from this consception he the soul can attain nirvana. " Mahesa-dhama is the destination of nirvana." There are destinations according to ones progress Please read below:

670105CC.NY Lectures
Ei tina dhamera haya krsna adhisvara. Ei tina dhama. Tina dhama, what is that three systems? This Devi-dhama, the Mahesa-dhama and Hari-dhama. Hari-dhama, the spiritual world, and Mahesa-dhama, in between... This Mahesa-dhama is the destination of nirvana. The nirvana philosophy, the Buddha philosophy, that is between this Devi-dhama and Hari-dhama, Mahesa-dhama, in between. They are liberated also, but not in the spiritual world, in the marginal place, which is called nirvana. Their material existence is finished, but their spiritual development is not there. So finishing material existence is not all. Just like one man is suffering from fever, and the fever subsides. That is not health. Fever subsides. That's all right. Fever has subsided. But healthy life is when he will work as a healthy man. Simply saying, "No, no more fever," no more fever, lying down on the bed, is the nirvana stage. No more fever. There is no fever, but he is not competent to get up from the bed and work. So that is called nirvana. The fever is finished. That is called nirvana. So when material existence is finished, that is nirvana. But you have to go further. You have to develop further. Then your real, constitutional life as spirit soul will be manifested. So that is bhakti-marga. That activity is healthy life after nirvana. So those who are in Krsna consciousness, they have already passed this material existence and nirvana stage. They are in healthy activities, provided he is actually engaged in Krsna consciousness.

Answer 10

especially Buddhist identity. hence the famous koan

Q: what is the Buddha?
A: three pounds of flax

and many more like that. though that is Zen buddhism. I think Theravada (South East Asian Buddhism) is less concerned with that aspect of letting go of identity, but I could be wrong.